Please Remove/Limit Premades Parties in Frontlines (or nerf DRK/WAR)

[Typhun]

Nah, my sole contribution doesn't mean crap. If I'm up against a premade, I've got nothing that's going to counter that and it's just a matter of trying to not end up in 3rd, and if I've got the premade on my side instead, I know they've got the match on lock and I could spam the 1-button for all the difference it'll make to the outcome

This mindset is absolutely wack and self-defeating, any job solo queue can make a huge difference in the outcome of a match. If you see a strong group on the enemy team and you're not confident in being able to shut it down on your current job, you can always swap to monk or reaper and force them to play around you. Hell, even picking a tank and gapclosing to their backlines every time the drk dives in tends to split firepower enough to nullify pulls. Instead of complaining about premades every post, learn to screw with them.

[Atreus]

Nah, my sole contribution doesn't mean crap. If I'm up against a premade, I've got nothing that's going to counter that and it's just a matter of trying to not end up in 3rd, and if I've got the premade on my side instead, I know they've got the match on lock and I could spam the 1-button for all the difference it'll make to the outcome. I've been in over a 1,000 matches and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a premade lose, and each time it seemed like a complete fluke rather than anything that could be considered skill on the part of the other two teams. (Node spawns be wily like that.)

The irony is that premades are the first ones to complain about "lethargy" and yet never stop to consider WHY such a large number of people just don't bother to try once a 4-man stack (or god forbid an 8-man one) takes the field and starts mopping up, or why it's utterly BAFFLING that when the suggestion is made to give them their own queue where they can fight the toughest and most skilled players among themselves they refuse such a gesture.

Either they're a bunch of hardcore players who should be fighting their own kind while leaving the chaff behind, or they actually enjoy slaughtering low-skill players and would hate to be forced into doing otherwise.

You know every time there's a group of 4 on your team or against you? And there's no possibility it could be anything else? And that all of their winrates are what, 90%? And that assumption effectively causes you to start soft throwing?

[Aravell]

Nah, my sole contribution doesn't mean crap. If I'm up against a premade, I've got nothing that's going to counter that and it's just a matter of trying to not end up in 3rd

You don't actually need to try and hard counter the enemy team alone, you know. Anything to break up their formation will help your team.

Dropping a Comet in the midst of the enemy team would force them to scatter and desync burst. Firing a MCH LB at the RPR might force them to instinctively Guard, which desyncs them from the rest of the burst. Diving in on a tank and then splitting off from your group would very likely split off half their team to chase you down, reducing their firepower.

Basically anything you can do to delay the enemy burst helps your team out, the only problem then would be on whether or not your team has the awareness to not die, which is something no one but themselves can help with.

[ChrysOCE]

Nah, my sole contribution doesn't mean crap. If I'm up against a premade, I've got nothing that's going to counter that and it's just a matter of trying to not end up in 3rd, and if I've got the premade on my side instead, I know they've got the match on lock and I could spam the 1-button for all the difference it'll make to the outcome.

Your own attitude is contributing to the outcome. As others have said, you can disrupt premades but it takes effort. Don't just throw your hands up. This attitude and the feeders and AFKers are what gets me in matches.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

snip cuz character limit on this post

MCH main right? Well, I admit things are more hands-tied in terms of what you can do as that job, but you do have a snipe that's in the strongest state it's been so far. Gets pretty silly when you're on a cap point in Secure with Bravery in tow, and Chainsaw on top if the target's any closer. Really silly stuff. In less niche instances well... sniping a DRK as they tromp in with possible LB is not a good pick unless you spot the moment they're held down by an unpurgeable cc. You could fire a warning shot at any of their backline cheerleaders though, as heavy damage taken in an instant tends to give most anyone the willies, causing them to fold early.

So all in all, it's still something. Just a matter of timing. I know there's plenty of MCHs that'll send out an LB on just about anything, and naturally you don't want to be one of those. When the target is a currently overwhelmed BRD and it's on 10% when they LB. Yeah. One of those. Nah. You probably know all that though.

Apart from a couple of ranged jobs, melee tend to carry abilities that are far more impactful. As a melee main, I'm almost always seeing options in my approach, and ways to disrupt bothersome groups. That's whether they be of the padding, headhunting or plain tryharding ilk. On the flipside, when I'm just too tired to focus I'll hop on a ranged when I don't care to win/lose and just want to get my roulette done in a hurry (a rare thing normally.)

Anyway, all this is to say that the ambient cohesion of randos can trump an alliance with premades. It absolutely does happen. I can attest to it, others are attesting to it. It's not that rare if that alliance you're in is even slightly willing to bare fangs. The only other stumbling blocks that come to mind is a of lack of amenability to trust enough, and also a misunderstanding of what personal survival thresholds actually are going from situation to situation, that hold some of the more eager but casual combatants back. (Think apprehensive shiffle-shuffles, treating their health bar as if it'll only take one hit to die to anything.)

One last one I suppose, but composure check. That's always there, which wraps around back into being an attitude issue I guess. Make no mistake I'm not trying to dismiss or trivialize your frustrations, a lot of the conduct can get into eye-rolly stuff but... the doom and gloom surrounding this matter is honestly overstated.

Btw, Dynamis? Is Dynamis any different from the other US DCs? That's actually the one place I haven't rolled up on, so just wondering.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

<so so going over the character limit with this one>

Okay lemme try to pick through this via the screenshots. It's tough though, given we're not seeing the top values of every section. But yeah I'll try.

First one the AST may be in a premade, but without seeing the whole board it's hard to make a proper assessment. Apart from... that's a bot match. Your side likely didn't even have to do much apart from touch tomeliths, and I'm guessing engaged in a little gratuitous spawn-camping vs red. That doesn't look like players unable to do stuff so much as players unwilling to do stuff. You claim newbies though, so there's a slim avenue for a benefit of the doubt.

Second screenshot I have no idea what the deal is with those turnouts so I'm skipping that. That would've been a "???" match in my books. Not much of anything going on there and one premade playing yeah. Very "???" match. "I just want my xp" on a grand scale, a match I'd half want to dip from rather than play to its end, ngl.

Third one is a little unclear, as it's organized by KOs yet you had the highest there. There's a hyperpadder on yellow and yet the only other player with a notable turnout there that's on your side is a SMN. I can't spot the premade in this one. The context you give for this screenshot is common. Just the other two sides genuinely falling asleep and realizing where they're at too late. Slight logistics error really. Now, you can have that one vocal person shriek "SMALLS" that's not part of any premade and get people moving to them 'cuz "PVE BOIZ!!!" I don't know if that's what happened, but you don't really need a premade to do that at that point. Have seen full rando alliances achieve that.

Last screenshot I can see there was a premade, yeah, but also the scores are very tight. 28 and 55 points behind the prevailing team. Was the premade really that much of a cornerstone behind that result? Looks like it could've gone either way, even when the blues appear to be crystal-humpers, again, going by what can be seen there. Probably came down to blues not drawing arms when they needed to but that's... such a small fraction of the match. That's all I can guesstimate though without having been there. Solo units getting it together could've swayed that. It wasn't to do with big crystals there so I'd think someone trying to killsteal off whoever they were attacking would've at least stalled their efforts and maybe even scuppered their win, so that was a missed opportunity (unless your side was the one feeding at a dumb time).

So we have one example of how close things can be regardless of premades or not, and two good examples of when people play like badly programmed bots because xp/whatever (probably) and/or the mental fortitude of jello. So the story those screenshots have to tell, like so much interpretive art, is:

• That the randos playing or not playing are what decided the matches way more than the premade's participation. It helped but it's not absolute. Sometimes it's better to peer into the negative space of a picture to see greater meaning.

• Consistently making good decisions as a solo unit can add or subtract those points that really matter in closer matches. More or less the same number of people as a premade.

• Finally, yes there are indeed some matches that are totally unsalvageable, but that's less to do with ability than it is motivation. Most of the time, I'd like to think. This is not a hard game to play (just imo).

If that's still your opinion then fair enough. It doesn't sound like you're having a great time, so taking time away is likely the right call. For the time being anyhow.

[EmilySummerstar]

Nah, my sole contribution doesn't mean crap.

I always take it as "challenge accepted." Contend the flanks, silence people with low hp, punish people who over extend, use the third team to steal kills or get assists. I'll admit there are games where my own team don't seem to even bother but I refuse to be part of the problem.


Just make sure to properly judge your own team's temperament and capabilities. All of this is effective even if you have no battle high.