zoning out/center extreme focus

[Astronis]

Counterpoint: I've been in many a static where the problematic player was the SMN. Do you know why? They kept messing up because they zoned out. They were the kind of players that didn't want to engage with more challenging jobs to focus on encounter design (and they tended to be lazy af as well). But the job put them to sleep further. Anecdotal? Perhaps, I don't know, but it's been my EW experience with SMN players.

This is not a counterpoint to my suggesting to this one specific player who has stated they have literally woken up having peed themselves that they should avoid playing a game that puts them into that kind of a trance.

I have absolutely nothing against SE making jobs more engaging across the board. I couldn't imagine playing SMN long term, though I do play DNC for the occasions I play DPS...at least it's a bit random and I can think about proper mit and when to time uses of my healing so it'll come off CD for next time for that job. There almost certainly is something SE can do in the case of jobs that are so repetitive that they are more likely to entrance people, though what they do isn't going to alter the fundamental formula. But this specific player needs to play something else, FFXIV is poison to them.

[Amarande]

There is loads of validity in this thread. It's sad that some folks appear to be jaded enough at the amount of bad faith internet posting to dismiss it out of hand (as a neurodivergent, it's been grinding on me increasingly on the Internet and sometimes even in RL lately: if you're just not that great at expressing your point, it seems, you almost had better consider stopping making that point at all - in fact, the backlash is often so strong, e.g. see how many threads get accused of being "yet another (insert troll here) alt" that sometimes I've wondered if I might have better results ardently supporting the opposite of what I'm after! LOL).

I barely ever do roulettes anymore. It's Saturday. I should have more than 90 tomestones this week (tbh I usually get more, but I've been missing the hunt trains and not enough DT S coming up that I can get to this week) and I should've done my M8 weekly already. I don't even feel motivated to do it. The current Experts are at least not as horribly hectic as the DT leveling dungeons were, so there's something there at least.

There were legitimate issues with some jobs probably, like Black Mage and the tightness of its timers - interesting as that setup was, it was on the verge of making the job virtually unplayable where performance was needed outside of farm content. It even had issues when soloing (as just one INTERRUPTED! could completely ruin your rotation, and there's no way to avoid that in solo content - the rotation was clearly designed around you accompanying a Tank).

But still, it's not like "Desperately hope that the Touhou bullet hell expansion will give you enough openings to reliably get in six F4 every fire phase because you only have enough MP to refresh the timer once in there" was really mentally engaging. You were still on a script.

I often even have another game like Chess or Doom open when I'm looking for S ranks these days, to be frank.

Honestly, that's a big part of the problem right there. Luck based mechanics aside, RPGs used to be among the most cerebral of games. Now the game is in fact just about altogether a physical challenge, which means that what used to be for the geeky cerebral types became something for a new generation of jocks, just Gamer Chair decked out jocks this time. Anything mentally engaging is more or less altogether reserved for those who are already champs in the physical side.

I'm not even sure I've seen any non-nostalgia MMOs anymore that aren't this way, either, unless they're mainly based around RNG (usually with some kind of pay-per-gamble monetization scheme) or perhaps there's something in the emerging non-combat MMO space (e.g. Palia) ... it's a palpable feeling lately that not only are MMOs not feeding our heads anymore, but whether "thinking engagement" is even a thing anymore outside of those at the bleeding vanguard of fields.

The brain goes unexercised, and attention wavers ...

[Bubblesong]

There is loads of validity in this thread. It's sad that some folks appear to be jaded enough at the amount of bad faith internet posting to dismiss it out of hand (as a neurodivergent, it's been grinding on me increasingly on the Internet and sometimes even in RL lately: if you're just not that great at expressing your point, it seems, you almost had better consider stopping making that point at all - in fact, the backlash is often so strong, e.g. see how many threads get accused of being "yet another (insert troll here) alt" that sometimes I've wondered if I might have better results ardently supporting the opposite of what I'm after! LOL).

I barely ever do roulettes anymore. It's Saturday. I should have more than 90 tomestones this week (tbh I usually get more, but I've been missing the hunt trains and not enough DT S coming up that I can get to this week) and I should've done my M8 weekly already. I don't even feel motivated to do it. The current Experts are at least not as horribly hectic as the DT leveling dungeons were, so there's something there at least.

There were legitimate issues with some jobs probably, like Black Mage and the tightness of its timers - interesting as that setup was, it was on the verge of making the job virtually unplayable where performance was needed outside of farm content. It even had issues when soloing (as just one INTERRUPTED! could completely ruin your rotation, and there's no way to avoid that in solo content - the rotation was clearly designed around you accompanying a Tank).

But still, it's not like "Desperately hope that the Touhou bullet hell expansion will give you enough openings to reliably get in six F4 every fire phase because you only have enough MP to refresh the timer once in there" was really mentally engaging. You were still on a script.

I often even have another game like Chess or Doom open when I'm looking for S ranks these days, to be frank.

Honestly, that's a big part of the problem right there. Luck based mechanics aside, RPGs used to be among the most cerebral of games. Now the game is in fact just about altogether a physical challenge, which means that what used to be for the geeky cerebral types became something for a new generation of jocks, just Gamer Chair decked out jocks this time. Anything mentally engaging is more or less altogether reserved for those who are already champs in the physical side.

I'm not even sure I've seen any non-nostalgia MMOs anymore that aren't this way, either, unless they're mainly based around RNG (usually with some kind of pay-per-gamble monetization scheme) or perhaps there's something in the emerging non-combat MMO space (e.g. Palia) ... it's a palpable feeling lately that not only are MMOs not feeding our heads anymore, but whether "thinking engagement" is even a thing anymore outside of those at the bleeding vanguard of fields.

The brain goes unexercised, and attention wavers ...

Exactly 100%

[Valence]

learn something new everyday. It's literally what I learned in school. And when it comes to pedagogy sometimes the earlier lessons are made simplest before getting into more advanced subjects. For example, when i looked up prime numbers after seeing your comment, the definition is not what I was taught in school. And my life doesn't require that i know that one is not a prime number. So when I saw it in game I assumed this was an in world logic.

If you're part of the english speaking world, this is my pet theory why this happens so much there and people swear they learned it like this. If you looked at the wikipedia EN definition, that would be why. It's correct, but it's easy to miss the arbitrary exclusion of 1, people will just retain the second part. Where I live the definition says "a natural integer that admits exactly two distinct natural integer dividers (1 and the number itself)", which removes the arbitrary exclusion of 1 because it's already included in that rule (0 is not a divider).

[TheInsomniac13]

...But this is still a problem even now. We still have ice mages and curebots at level 100.

It doesn't matter how much you oversimplify job design. Bad players will still find a way to be bad because they simply do not care to improve. It's time to stop pretending that SE need to make the game shit to accommodate people who aren't interested in learning how to play it.

Casual content barely requires people to have even a basic understanding of how their jobs work. Why are we trying to make jobs so simple that they can be understood by people who don't care to understand them?

Why are we more worried about the hypothetical players who may leave if jobs/content is too complex instead of the 66% of the playerbase that has left because they're bored with the current state of the game?

If RL teached me anything than it is that if you make the world Idiot prove the world will deliver you a better Idiot. No matter how easy we will make a job rotation give it a month and we will have people who cannot do that, be it because it is so boring that they nod of or because they couldent be botherd to read even what there skills do.

So whats the next step? 1 Button Rotations? what comes after? Auto Macros to push skills for you? What comes after that because the only players left are either absolut imbicils or to distracted by there first monitor content to pay attention to FF14 running on there second screen... the only way were no one can fail anymore make FF 14 an auto battler problem solved no one can ever mess up an rotation again.

And everyone who once love the game has wandert of playing something that actualy engages them.

If some one talkes about accesebilety you better talk about Hud options tools or other helping tools to help people who are deisabled or restricted to enjoy the thing we all enjoy the way we enjoy it. Accesebilety is not watering it down till there is absolutly no challange left.
In Roulett I have meet a French Bard player who always when I meet them stated that they only have 1 arme and excused themself if they do not perform optimal... and guss what?! They were really good at playing bard in spite of that.
A person who wants to enjoy a thing should get all the oportuneties to enjoy it. Some one complaining that the thing is to difficult but they love the estetic so make it easyer... really deservs to be called a tourist.

[Bubblesong]

If RL teached me anything than it is that if you make the world Idiot prove the world will deliver you a better Idiot. No matter how easy we will make a job rotation give it a month and we will have people who cannot do that, be it because it is so boring that they nod of or because they couldent be botherd to read even what there skills do.

So whats the next step? 1 Button Rotations? what comes after? Auto Macros to push skills for you? What comes after that because the only players left are either absolut imbicils or to distracted by there first monitor content to pay attention to FF14 running on there second screen... the only way were no one can fail anymore make FF 14 an auto battler problem solved no one can ever mess up an rotation again.

And everyone who once love the game has wandert of playing something that actualy engages them.

If some one talkes about accesebilety you better talk about Hud options tools or other helping tools to help people who are deisabled or restricted to enjoy the thing we all enjoy the way we enjoy it. Accesebilety is not watering it down till there is absolutly no challange left.
In Roulett I have meet a French Bard player who always when I meet them stated that they only have 1 arme and excused themself if they do not perform optimal... and guss what?! They were really good at playing bard in spite of that.
A person who wants to enjoy a thing should get all the oportuneties to enjoy it. Some one complaining that the thing is to difficult but they love the estetic so make it easyer... really deservs to be called a tourist.

100%,

But it seems when you talk about why things being so simplified with everything job wise that you mark yourself as a villain are expecting them to cater to, when all that's been asked is one job having more "difficulty" /engagement to prevent zoning out and less worried

[BunnyBrat]

Wow, nicest, friendliest, most welcoming community my behind. Yall are really showing your true colors in this chat. At least three of you are giving alt right/eugenics vibes.

[BigCheez]

Wow, nicest, friendliest, most welcoming community my behind. Yall are really showing your true colors in this chat. At least three of you are giving alt right/eugenics vibes.

Are you okay?

[TheInsomniac13]

100%,

But it seems when you talk about why things being so simplified with everything job wise that you mark yourself as a villain are expecting them to cater to, when all that's been asked is one job having more "difficulty" /engagement to prevent zoning out and less worried

I don´t care if people see me as a villain, I payed for content that at this point is bearly existing anymore so I see myself entiteld to bitch and moan about it till either my payed playtime runs out or I get refundet, because let´s be honest the Devs will keep there direction of game design going till anyone who remains are the Hardcore Raiders the ones who use 14 as a Social chatroom and the oney leaving it as autoplay running in the background. (I am not joking I see a future coming were autobattle will be added to this game)

[Bubblesong]

Wow, nicest, friendliest, most welcoming community my behind. Yall are really showing your true colors in this chat. At least three of you are giving alt right/eugenics vibes.

Lol ALt right dude I'm a transwoman I'm as far from the right as possible lol, and we aren't being mean we just want some intelligence that isn't mean lol or "unfriendly" We just want a job or two to require some intelligence to play so we don't suffer zoning out to extreme and dangerous points (at least i do), I'm not trying to be mean are anything, but a little defensive (yes 100% im a bit defensive) you are being mean in your way as well do not realize disassociating when you do not have triggers and difficult/challenging gameplay is a real issue? What do you want us to twiddle our thumbs and attack ourselves when we just one something just 1 job at the very least that can keep us engaged?

I guess we don't matter because we are over thinkers, and require activity going on within our brain and the only ones who matter are the ones who can't think at all right