Rewards vs pvp integrity

[Valence]

All this talk about cutting rewards for losers in FL or not, about freeloaders for roulettes, people throwing on purpose, etc, made me think that you'll probably never solve this conundrum fully: adding rewards will essentially draw in people from other parts of the MMO that just want said rewards but hate the mode or just don't want to engage enough with it, and will also encourage people that actually enjoy the mode to "optimize" their investment to get to said rewards better or faster.

This is not a hazard that in current FL a lot of the population is just there to level up their jobs. It's not completely binary and black and white, some may hate the mode, some may like it, some may be okay with it and the xp is the motivator that makes them queue for it either way. Cut this out and FL becomes a dead mode, much like if you cut the crystal series and casual will peter out as well.

This is not a hazard either that the more rewards we have had in the competitive ranked pvp modes in XIV, the more win trading and obnoxious toxic behavior has happened, because rewards were limited in nature. Currently there is a lack of rewards to keep people engaged into ranked which is something that has been universally panned by the ranked pvp crowd, but I truly wonder what would happen were we to get seasonal top 100 mounts and unique gear and whatnot?

I'm not sure there is a true and serious answer there. This is a MMO community and it's inherently driven by rewards. Put this in stark contrast with a lot of multiplayer games where even if the multiplayer population still remains a minority (solo, campaign/story and co-op modes are always more populated than ranked no matter the game), the rewards are generally pathetic if there is even some, yet they do play ranked consistently. It's not the case with XIV, where people don't play the sport for the sport itself fully.

[Burmecia]

hmm, taking exp earnings (or "earnings") away would kill especially frontline.
some people afking and acting like tools because they're there only for exp are tradeoff for not dead pvp.

i prefer it this way. rather than having pvp being ghosttown, where very small group of veterans are killing each other day in and day -- without even some exp to show for it.

...we aren't talking CC muppets calling for Feast FOMO to make comeback, right?

[Goldolds1972]

It'll end up a ghosttown cause it seems like recently theres a ton more pvp static teams joining the FL and mowing through us that yes, want the rewards, but also try but havent done all the youtube watching to learn what buttons to push when and at what cycle during certain times and stuff. If it werent for malmstone rewards, I would never do pvp as im not much into it to begin with. But what would make it more enjoyable to play is 1.This is for roulette anyways, not queuing specifically up for it, but you must queue as a random so it is mixed up entirely between teams. I think people can do one 5-10min session without friends. 2. Take away pullin and knockback skills. Gets old when there isnt any fighting at all. Its just player getting tied down and cheap killed. Or make FL roulette just like signing up for a dungeon, you enter as the class you entered with and the teams are evened out like a dungeon. No more everyone being the same class so people get yanked around till killed. I have no problems with friends playing together like a lot of people keep arguing about. Its the ones that play together like a static team. Yes, I suck, you can all sit there and tease me about it. But I'd at least like to fight in a pvp FL instead of getting pulled around and then tied down and killed with no possibility of defending myself. So to me its either must sign up as a solo rando for FL roulette or it get treated like signing up for a dungeon run. Getting to a point where if i even make it to the mount right now on the malmstones, its the last I play for pvp. FL is not fun at all with it being just running into battlefield just to get yanked around 50 times.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

<snip cuz gonna ramble>

Do you go as RPR when you play FL? Generally you will be focused unless you get good with the teleport and use it to joust better when attempting dives. RPR is treated as one of those spooky jobs (no pun intended) that gets held down asap normally. Might be worth switching to a different job like DRG until you can handle being the likely focus. RPR should be just fine when you notice the return teleport is 30y, it's actually really really good at hit and runs.

You're really not as disadvantaged as you think queuing alone, but I suppose if you don't enjoy the pvp for pvp then you're not going to improve much. Passion tends to kindle gitting gudder faster. Take this from someone who regularly runs at smaller groups alone and skirmishes without dying, job pick permitting. You can learn to play around knockbacks and draw-ins with just a bit of instinct, which you'd start picking up by not declaring the pvp as a total write-off in your mind. It's a pity so many yield to the more thuggish groups though, and decide it's not worth it outside of the rewards and never return.

Thus we return to the vibe of the topic, why do we have so many queuing up "just for the reward", while also bringing in these "I cba" defeatist (or downright dismissive) attitudes? Why are most of all the attitudes concerning pvp motives right now negative? That's the quandary. Sometimes I'll hang out at various instances of WDP, and see some sprouts seemingly having fun in the dueling area. I'll occasionally cut in to gauge interest in pvp as a whole, and things tend to go from there. It's nice when there's enthusiasm. There needs to be more of that. (Maybe WDP can start by looking a bit more presentable for one, after so many years...)

[Mawlzy]

Thus we return to the vibe of the topic, why do we have so many queuing up "just for the reward", while also bringing in these "I cba" defeatist (or downright dismissive) attitudes? Why are most of all the attitudes concerning pvp motives right now negative? That's the quandary. Sometimes I'll hang out at various instances of WDP, and see some sprouts seemingly having fun in the dueling area. I'll occasionally cut in to gauge interest in pvp as a whole, and things tend to go from there. It's nice when there's enthusiasm. There needs to be more of that. (Maybe WDP can start by looking a bit more presentable for one, after so many years...)

The semi-facetious answer is "because it's an MMO."

That said, the "gimme summat or I won't play" seems to me to be particularly bad in 14.

But there's a lovely breeze coming in from my balcony, and thus I am optimistic. I report non-participants. Over the last six weeks, I've been contacted by GMs on four occasions who seem genuinely interested in discussing my concerns. They have encouraged me to continue to report those breaking ToS. I get the feeling there's a little PvP enclave at SE (NA at least), where GMs care about FL.

I hope I'm not fooling myself.

You want change? Vote kick and report.

I suspect there are many players "just there for the rewards" who avoid combat and don't know they're doing anything wrong. Or they figure FL is a joke mode.

Let's change that belief. Olivia tried to remove this element of the player base through her exceptional skill. Hasn't worked. Suspended accounts may be more effective than getting the snot kicked out of you by a French Maid.

Vive la résistance! Mort aux détracteurs!

[Valence]

The semi-facetious answer is "because it's an MMO."

That said, the "gimme summat or I won't play" seems to me to be particularly bad in 14.

But there's a lovely breeze coming in from my balcony, and thus I am optimistic. I report non-participants. Over the last six weeks, I've been contacted by GMs on four occasions who seem genuinely interested in discussing my concerns. They have encouraged me to continue to report those breaking ToS. I get the feeling there's a little PvP enclave at SE (NA at least), where GMs care about FL.

I hope I'm not fooling myself.

You want change? Vote kick and report.

I suspect there are many players "just there for the rewards" who avoid combat and don't know they're doing anything wrong. Or they figure FL is a joke mode.

Let's change that belief. Olivia tried to remove this element of the player base through her exceptional skill. Hasn't worked. Suspended accounts may be more effective than getting the snot kicked out of you by a French Maid.

Vive la résistance! Mort aux détracteurs!

Can you ask them to talk to their EU fellows? Our GMs here are the worst offenders when it comes to lethargic play. I've never once in my life been contacted by a GM for a report I made. And I've made a lot of them.

[Mawlzy]

It'll end up a ghosttown cause it seems like recently theres a ton more pvp static teams joining the FL and mowing through us that yes, want the rewards, but also try but havent done all the youtube watching to learn what buttons to push when and at what cycle during certain times and stuff. If it werent for malmstone rewards, I would never do pvp as im not much into it to begin with. But what would make it more enjoyable to play is 1.This is for roulette anyways, not queuing specifically up for it, but you must queue as a random so it is mixed up entirely between teams. I think people can do one 5-10min session without friends. 2. Take away pullin and knockback skills. Gets old when there isnt any fighting at all. Its just player getting tied down and cheap killed. Or make FL roulette just like signing up for a dungeon, you enter as the class you entered with and the teams are evened out like a dungeon. No more everyone being the same class so people get yanked around till killed. I have no problems with friends playing together like a lot of people keep arguing about. Its the ones that play together like a static team. Yes, I suck, you can all sit there and tease me about it. But I'd at least like to fight in a pvp FL instead of getting pulled around and then tied down and killed with no possibility of defending myself. So to me its either must sign up as a solo rando for FL roulette or it get treated like signing up for a dungeon run. Getting to a point where if i even make it to the mount right now on the malmstones, its the last I play for pvp. FL is not fun at all with it being just running into battlefield just to get yanked around 50 times.

Courage, mon brave!

If you're playing at melee distance, be aware the competent enemies are using "target nearest."

Don't be nearest. It's like that business when you're getting chased by a bear. You don't need to be faster than the bear. Consult a Canadian for details.

Through the iterations I have played, FL boils down to moving fast and kicking the enemy in the teeth before they lock onto your teeth.

Playing solo is fine. Over 8,000+ matches, I have always queued solo. I have to. I'm convinced joining Discord premades gives you STDs.

You may die. Oh well. Rub some dirt in it, get back in there, and smack the yahoo who got you.

Or just play green dps or ranged and avoid all that fisticuffs and ping-ponging! AST and WHM are wonderful. You get to wear pretty frocks, twirl elegantly, cause chaos, then drop a courtesy heal as you run away essay a tactical retreat.

Exit stage left, smiling, as your cooldowns... er... cool down. Then unleash the cats of war again. Preferably behind a tank.

It's digital ballet.

Poetry in motion.

[Mawlzy]

Seem to recall there are some specific rewards/achievements that tend to encourage people to play badly. Like isn't there one for capping nodes on Seal? I assumed this was the reason some players head directly to a point as far from the battle as possible and just sit there.