People don’t realize how easy it is to get into raiding in this game

[Absurdity]

Good one.

[VeyaAkemi]

Try doing any of these without guide and you'll see there's no chance to clear it, because some of mechanics are so cryptiic that it's clear they are not intended to be understood by just anyone, but requires either a genius or a team of analytic experts to untantle it and present a solution to everyone else, which is quite often still is quite complicated and not easy to learn.

People blind prog EX and Savage literally all the time, it's harder, sure, but it is not a "hyper genius" kinda deal, not even remotely, a huge element of what makes Savage harder isn't the mechanics being obtuse, they aren't to the point some feel it is a problem, it's that they are both extremely punishing and much faster, Arcady Night Encore is the peak example of that to me, incredibly fast mechanic where even one person messing up will punish the entire team.

[fumofu]

People blind prog EX and Savage literally all the time

There's probably 2 types of players doing it:
1.Expert raiders who live and breathe this content. They're so good at it that they not only don't require guides, but probably can make guides themselves and grasp even most complex mechanics wich just one look at it.
2.New players, who are lured into it by sweet lies like ''it's not that hard and actually fun'' and are yet to discover what nightmare they got themselves in.

[Jeeqbit]

Try doing any of these without guide and you'll see there's no chance to clear it, because some of mechanics are so cryptiic that it's clear they are not intended to be understood by just anyone, but requires either a genius or a team of analytic experts to untangle it

That's true of certain mechanics such as Devour, or complex "place things" mechanics, because it motivates you to open MS paint and spend a few hours understanding where all the AoEs happen, triangulating their exact range, where the safe spots will be with certain placements, and the most simplest and optimal ways to do it.

Devour for example had my blind prog party banging their head against the wall, so we stopped. It was clearly a mechanic we needed to visualize in MS paint first or we'd never know what's happening, since on the ground it's just "AoE every single place of the arena" and not a simple shiva pattern and you really can't know what's going on without slow-motion capture and visualizing it all from above in an external diagram. A lot of last floors in savage have mechanics like that, where you're all placing things leaving tight safe spots and you need to map it out ahead of time.

But is it impossible to do blind for a new player? Well, streamers are often new players and they are clearing extremes in 1 day at least. Some of them even clear savage blind as well. Arguably, these are usually raiders from other games but they are still new to this game and this game just isn't the same so they often display new player behaviour despite their experience in other games. Arguably though, if they do it blind they still have to draw things out in MS paint or elsewhere.

Fortunately, SE will be addressing this when they release their version of "raidplan", which currently doesn't have a release date but is planned to be during the Dawntrail patches. I think that will help people to plan it out blind without external utilities.

present a solution to everyone else, which is quite often still is quite complicated and not easy to learn.

I'd have to disagree in most cases there. Usually the plan that is presented by others is easy to learn. If it's not, there is usually an easier alternative that is not a common strat but that would be easy to learn if used.

Also, SE knows that most people will not do it blind, considering that even the JP region doesn't. Even Yoshi-P and the community team have entered PF and done PUG strats on stream to demonstrate this.

It's also worth pointing out a true test of this is when we get Extremes in Mentor Roulette with pure sprouts. Almost all of them are clears. I cleared Thordan Extreme earlier in Mentor Roulette with a FT sprout for example. The last time I got Thordan it was also a clear. And I've also cleared in that roulette: Emanation, Tsukuyomi's Pain, Great Hunt, Limitless Blue, Thok Ast Thok, Striking Tree, Whorleater, Bowl of Embers, The Navel, Ultima's Bane, Thornmarch, Howling Eye, Akh Afah Amphitheatre. The level 50 ones and Great Hunt are the most common, but the fact is we've cleared the others with sprouts as well. I'd admit Nidhogg's Rage hasn't worked out but usually it does get pretty far at least.

Then there's constant mechanics randomisation

This varies, but typically the lower level fights such as extremes or floors 1/2 don't have that much randomization, whereas the final savage floors work your muscle memory hard with the number of RNG possibilities.
The randomness can work in your favor, because sometimes you will get the "easy" combination, so that the better players can carry you. I've been farming Sphene Ex lately, and a good example can be things like "not getting AoE or lazer" target in the asteroid phase so you get to just sit on the tower. That sort of luck can help you carry certain players through fights purely on the basis that RNG did not give them the mechanics they can't do.

[missTori]

This is obviously troll topic. Difficulty of some ex trials and most of savage raids are absolutely insane. Try doing any of these without guide and you'll see there's no chance to clear it, because some of mechanics are so cryptiic that it's clear they are not intended to be understood by just anyone, but requires either a genius or a team of analytic experts to untangle it and present a solution to everyone else, which is quite often still is quite complicated and not easy to learn. Then there's constant mechanics randomisation, which means you can't simply learn this fight step by step, as you are constantly seeing different mechanics and not given chance to learn them. And on top of that there's there's these ridiculous ''dps checks'' as a final spit in your face. As if mechanics alone weren't crazy enough, everyone in party, even healers, are expected to do absolutely perfect rotations, aligned with some ''buff windows'', which in this game is a complete joke, but that's another topic. So, learn a ton of bullshit mechanics, then memorize your entire rotation, skill by skill each second of the fight and maybe then, if everyone else in your party do it all perfectly too - you might get clear. Wow, much fun! And you call raids ''easy''? I'm actually astonished how someone in this game even agrees to do this stuff on their own will!

I would consider myself bad. Like really bad. I grey parsed worqor on launch with my summoner, but i recently cleared zelenia extreme on my paladin in 4 hrs. THROUGH pf.

I made a throwaway discord server and everyone was having fun in there, talking about the game REPO, taking bdsm tests, talking about how expensive disney trips are, posting funny crappy AI music.. Just shooting the breeze. I've rarely met anyone rude in pf. Most people will just leave if they aren't vibing, it's not a big deal.. These forums are exhausting. It's fine if you dont want to even step foot into this kind of content, the point of my thread was that you don't have to p2w enchant your weapons or gear just to hold aggro like any other asian mmo. So many comments here are extremely bitter. Im convinced that the randoms i've played with are nicer than yall lmao

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Idk. What makes it 'impossible' IMHO is how more & more players developing tendencies to almost always 'copy other's homeworks' via either watching guides, reading strats on raidplan, or copypasting somebody's heal/mit plans. (Hilariously absurd to see people demand these in day 1-2 ngl). Deconditioning is a thing after all. Sooner or later you end up with more people who literally have no idea what to do unless they're spoonfed by ready informations. And worse, even expecting it.

Why do you think those guides/spreadsheets even exists from first place? To people who have recognized the general pattern by experience, it takes some stumbling here and there before they figure out what and/or how to solve XYZ. No they don't need to be 'ultra tryhard sweaty' either. At least not ex/savage.

[SlickPaws]

Idk. What makes it 'impossible' IMHO is how more & more players developing tendencies to almost always 'copy other's homeworks' via either watching guides, reading strats on raidplan, or copypasting somebody's heal/mit plans. (Hilariously absurd to see people demand these in day 1-2 ngl). Deconditioning is a thing after all. Sooner or later you end up with more people who literally have no idea what to do unless they're spoonfed by ready informations. And worse, even expecting it.

Why do you think those guides/spreadsheets even exists from first place? To people who have recognized the general pattern by experience, it takes some stumbling here and there before they figure out what and/or how to solve XYZ. No they don't need to be 'ultra tryhard sweaty' either. At least not ex/savage.

I think the issue here is that the game incentivises this kind of behaviour because there is often only one way to build a job via gear and materia, and there's often only one way to resolve certain mechanics in certain fights. Occasionally you do see a couple of competing strats but for the most part, it becomes a case of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." In terms of pure efficiency and trying to facilitate a clear for 8 players of varying skill levels and investment into the content, copying what has provably worked is just the best way to go when the content and the gearing has already been solved. It's not like other MMOs where you have a lot more control and variability on builds and skill trees that may allow for different strats and new ideas, such as using Assassin Tank to cheese tankbusters in SWTOR (that's the only other MMO I have much experience raiding in) but even then a "meta" tends to form around what works best with the least amount of effort.
Weirdly, I think this means that FFXIV probably has the lowest barrier to entry when it comes to raiding because everything you need has already been solved by the best and most dedicated raiders.

[Valence]

I'd say this extends even to progging. I really do not mesh with "Watch a vid beforehand/while progging"-method. I have to actually DO the stuff to learn, and I have to do it continuously with only tiny breaks in-between should party mate even need it. The repetitive 'pauses' just because somebody needs to review their own material really force a figurative brake on my own learning momentum, and thus it's easy for me to just forget whatever I've learned up to that point.

Worse? There's very little communication, like you've said. "Is there anything I can do to help with X mechanic?" is often met with silence until the proverbial 'ok' via next abrupt countdown timer. Also don't even get me started on the ones who don't even know what it means to prog a fight together..... lol. It wasn't as bad during ShB as far as I can remember... what led to the shift in paradigm come EW, Idk. I'm so over that.

It would blow people's mind that in SB and before PF progging or reclears actually had ranged dps not only flex between R1 and R2 because no holy raidplans, but also sometimes also ask you to know melee mechanics as well because getting 3 or even 4 ranged wasn't that unusual. People had to talk and adjust. If anything it was statics that guaranteed you a single consistent spot. I used to say that PF back then made the toughest, most adjusted mofos.

Currently it's just people throwing a fit whenever something deviates from the set of execution ever so slightly

[Valence]

No I don’t want the timer back and if you had read other posts of mine you would have known that while missing the timer I don’t care too much about its removal but apparently you refuse to do that.

Instead you continue with your childish insults and contradicting yourself with being a casual BLM and trying to dictate to those who played it before in higher content in how you apparently know everything about that job when you can’t even name the apparent skill ceiling you parade around or even fail to realize how the faster cast times had a huge impact on the use of triplecast.

Call me what you want.
I find you at most amusing at this point.

Goodbye or whatever.
I don’t want to derail the thread any longer and will stop here.

But if I am still pressing the same buttons and doing the same rotation it surely means nothing much has changed with BLM right? .. right?

[TheInsomniac13]

But if I am still pressing the same buttons and doing the same rotation it surely means nothing much has changed with BLM right? .. right?

Depends if you go to a restaurant ordering the stake because you like the way it is seasoned, but it suddenly is served without even a pinch of salt... you can still eat it like normal... but do´s it still taste you? Will you still come to this restaurant ordering the stake?

And while I ask the person why the food taste so freaking bland the blogs on the neighbor table keep talking how I should stop complaining now every granny who finds salt to spicy can enjoy the stake.
But I feel entiteld to complain because I have prepaid this restaurant table which now do´s not serve me what I wanna eat anymore.