Why Crit for tanks?

[MrSnow288]

So why do the BiS websites have Crit materia for tanks? They don't outdamage any of the DPS, why wouldn't it be best to put in tenacity or determination?

[Supersnow845]

Because crit provides more DPS regardless of role so it’s the best for every role

Just because tanks don’t do as much DPS as DPS doesn’t mean doing more DPS isn’t better

[Carighan]

Yeah it's a bit of a shame that secondary stats don't at least diversify more (meaning different jobs value different stats the most), instead it's always Crit > Det >=/=/> DH >= Ten (IIRC, after they buffed it? Could still be '>').

[Rithy255]

So why do the BiS websites have Crit materia for tanks? They don't outdamage any of the DPS, why wouldn't it be best to put in tenacity or determination?

Tank damage while it doesn't "out damage" DPS is still pretty strong, around 60-70% worth of a DPS values, Tank and Healer dps matter a lot towards a enrage, one tank and one healer together would even outdps one dps, so it's very important to damage on both roles.

Tenacity isn't picked because tanks already have more then enough mitigation to the point of having more is just useless, the damage gain is smaller then determination, which on det you don't use as much as Crit/Dh. So you almost never want tenacity, even if its mitigation benefits sound good on paper it's not.

Determination is a decent stat, but tanks would rather have Direct hit because they lack Direct hit without melds because tank gear doesn't have them built in, this stat might be better on DPS due to them having direct hit built into gear

Stat priority is Critical hit > Direct hit > Determination > Tenacity/Skill Speed. (sometimes skill speed is fine, though on jobs like PLD who use spells you 100% want to avoid it if you can).

Stat priority is just based on max damage, because in ff14 damage is the most important even on tanks and healers, crit is great because a burst critical hit attack does a lot of damage and crit scales better then any other stat.

[Alice_Rivers]

Dead things can't hit back, therefore dps=mit.

[Espon]

A tank's base kit is enough to allow them to tank anything. It's better to just kill things faster hence why all jobs—including tanks and healers—try to maximize DPS.

[Oizen]

Allow me to introduce you to the highly interesting materia stats of FFXIV:
You have:

+damage
+damage(again)
+damage (worse)
+damage (somehow even worse, tanks only, marginally more tanky but your CDs do the heavy lifting so who cares)
+skill/spell speed (borderline abandoned concept)
+piety (lol)

Crit/DH just happen to be the best +damages

[Rithy255]

Allow me to introduce you to the highly interesting materia stats of FFXIV:
You have:

+damage
+damage(again)
+damage (worse)
+damage (somehow even worse, tanks only, marginally more tanky but your CDs do the heavy lifting so who cares)
+skill/spell speed (borderline abandoned concept)
+piety (lol)

Crit/DH just happen to be the best +damages

Makes me sad to see skill/spell speed be pretty much useless in favour of Critical hit, Honestly Critical/direct hit are such boring stats that don't have any effect on gameplay... actually I despise depending more of getting crits in burst.

Imagine if tenacity was a serious consideration ever... that would actually be interesting but because tanks are so survivable and DPS checks are so important it becomes a stat that has no purpose.

I really wish that stats felt more intresting... at the very least I much rather have speed builds be more viable rather then stacking critical hit, it's such a boring design.

[Mikey_R]

Imagine if tenacity was a serious consideration ever... that would actually be interesting but because tanks are so survivable and DPS checks are so important it becomes a stat that has no purpose.

As Tenacity stands, if you want to make it a more serious pick, you either need to improve the damage gain, which, at the end of the day, just changes the stat priority, the other is increasing the damage mitigation. Now, this is a slightly more interesting prospect, but it end up in a similar situation to what accuracy used to be, ie. you get enough to go past a specific threshold, then you pick something else. It does come with the fact you have to then work out what combination of gear gives you that minimum, whilst then giving you the best damage increase. This would then just be put into a calculator that spits out the best gear combination with materia melds. It isn't an interesting prospect either way as it doesn't change how you play.

Unless you want to give Tenacity a new use, there isn't really anything interesting that could come from it (and I am ignoring the healing aspect, it really isn't something that needs to be taken into account, ie. the more Tenacity you have, the less damage you take, which means the extra healing is more likely to go to waste).

I am someone who would like more variety in stats and how jobs gear up. In my opinion, it is going to require more than just changing what stats do, it needs a change in how jobs are designed in general. But giving you the option of making a fast build or a more crit orientated build. Split Crit into Drit damage and Crit Rate, Direct hit is changed to reflect one of these (Critical Hit Rate determines the % and Direct Hit determines the damage). Tenacity, Piety and Determination could then be the role specific stats. Tenacity can do what it does now, Piety should add additional healing and have a damage increase and then Determination would primarily be a flat damage increase, but it could also add a very small amount of crit/DH (I didn't want to keep it as just a flat damage and this was the nest in a 10 second think, feel free to improve).

I don't really want to make a long post explaining jobs in more detail, but this would be a start in making things more interesting.

[Espon]

I think a neat idea to make Tenacity actually useful would be to give dungeon and raid bosses the chance to crit with auto-attacks for like +200% damage, with Tenacity reducing the chance of crits landing on the tank, in addition to its current effects.

Keep the required amount to reach crit immunity consistent throughout the expansion (like say 2400 for Dawntrail) so that going back to previous tiers doesn't feel like you're completely wasting stats. As your ilvl goes up, it just means you can afford to go after more pieces that lack Tenacity or not meld as much of it.

And for more daring players that trust their healers to keep them alive, the option of going for more DPS is still there in exchange for survivability.