M6s in PF is the most miserable and unfun high end fight in the game

[Doomfist]

I found M7S pretty stressful because of the overstimulating music and extremely fast speed, which messes with people on higher ping. I went back to help an M6S PF and it was soooo relaxing and slow in comparison now that I mastered that fight. It calmed me down from being tilted in M7.

[Reimmi]

Well it's been cleared without tanks now
Is it time for us tanks to start the tank strike?

[Taranok]

You're too lazy to do so much as buy a 740 crafted set and you expect to breeze through one of the hardest fights in the tier? lol

I'm in full 740 and had to hard carry my awful m6s clear group on my alt to victory because everyone else was a mouth-breather and can't even handle below average play without falling over dead.

The second fight of a tier should not be the hardest fight, the fact that one section of it is harder than ultimate mechanics design is 1000% the problem. And, from my own experience, it used to be more than possible to breeze through the first 2 tiers in prior-tier's BIS. I did it numerous times in stormblood and shadowbringers. But I suppose shifting goalposts and making the game so hard that most players who want to do savage can't handle even its second fight is good fight design.

What do I know, I've only been savage raiding since ARR.

[-Xenia-]

P6s vs P7s would like to have a word with you
P10s vs p11s would like to as well.

Anything else? Ah yes, the Snek prior and easy for PF cannot go together, sorry.

Yes, sometimes the 3rd fight is easier than the 2nd. Happened again here. Doesn't change my point - m6s adds phase is like 4th fight level difficulty not 2nd nor 3rd. The only thing that makes it somewhat understandable is that the design is such that better gear makes it a lot easier.

Also never said p8s snakes were easy for pf. Easier than m6s adds though, for sure.

[Atreides]

Yes, sometimes the 3rd fight is easier than the 2nd. Happened again here. Doesn't change my point - m6s adds phase is like 4th fight level difficulty not 2nd nor 3rd. The only thing that makes it somewhat understandable is that the design is such that better gear makes it a lot easier.

Also never said p8s snakes were easy for pf. Easier than m6s adds though, for sure.

What's funny is that even M8S has an add phase, but the damage check there is a complete joke by comparison. The fight is definitely faster paced and has more mechanics overall, but none of the groups I joined struggled with any phase nearly as much as they did with the adds in M6S. This is all from Party Finder experience, of course statics might have a completely different perspective on this tier.

[StormEye]

Its been cleared without Tanks. Which would suggest that tank performance is near irrelevant in this fight.
Its up to healers to be able to heal properly (most probably never had to use full kit before), and DPS need to step up their game in AOE and burst priority.

[Amarande]

Its been cleared without Tanks. Which would suggest that tank performance is near irrelevant in this fight.
Its up to healers to be able to heal properly (most probably never had to use full kit before), and DPS need to step up their game in AOE and burst priority.

(Role) is nearly irrelevant. (Role) needs to step up their game.

This is actually a chronic problem with FFXIV fight design.

To be honestly extremely blunt. It's a game that pretends to be a team game, but you don't even really have an actual team.

A team would imply the ability for players to cover each other's mistakes and weaknesses. You don't have that. You got eight people each in a bubble and if any of the bubbles pop, you all pop.

Instead of each team member a welcomed ally bolstering the situation, in fact, each team member is primarily a point of failure to be anxious over. To be ironed out or kicked out.

Even physical sports are not this stark. There's a lot more team members covering for each other, a lot less single points of failure even there. Why are soccer and basketball so enduring? Because you work together. It's not "Oh, Jimmy's the center, he's the only one who can score the point for us, dammit Jimmy you let us down again." It's "The ball is getting away from Jimmy but Kyle saved the day."

The raid culture even reflects this. You don't succeed, especially in PF, by focusing on what people can do (in fact, even WoW raid culture is leagues ahead of us in this regard), you have to focus on every little detail they couldn't do. You need people that are essentially perfect. Any stumbling block and they are an unacceptable liability. That's why we have soul-eating cruelties like Tomestone.

I can only assume it's why learner-oriented Discords are generally relatively small and private (in stark contrast to WoW's Warcraft Made Easy) and even the more successful ones, even ones I know that have legit super chill vibes and have bots set up to help organize things, still run alarmingly low activity (less than even the BA discords towards the end of Stormblood, and that was a 56 player event that only allowed for one run to be scheduled throughout an entire datacenter per 2-3 hour time slot).

It's Battletoads all over again. Except with eight players and 2 was enough of a handful in that game to make you want to grab the cartridge in both hands and snap violently.

On the one hand I want to beat up big monsters in good company. On the other hand I see this and think "how are we supposed to have that fun in this mess?"

The main winners are content creators and the folks that sit back and view them on stream, like folks sitting back to watch American football on Sunday afternoon.

But that is not what a MMO was supposed to be about. It was supposed to be a massively multiplayer game, not a massively multispectator sports stadium ...

[Volgia]

Well it's been cleared without tanks now
Is it time for us tanks to start the tank strike?

You got a video of that? that's pretty neat

[Daralii]

You got a video of that? that's pretty neat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A63X5VZqYWI

[Doomfist]

No point getting mad at these tankless/healerless clears in hardcore content, when you know for a fact 99.99% of raiders would never run this kind of comp. People who -do- doom about these clears invalidating roles, must have a huge ego to think they can play just as well as the literal W1st winners that did tankless M6S.