Summoner needs a fix or a new reason to play it.

[ThatBluezyGuy]

ig in a way for your 6-9 summons to work you'd need 3 egi buttons that randomly shuffle after a demi like an auto astral draw? otherwise i can see the hotbar being totally bloated.

this actually reads like you want SMN to be BLU oddly.

sadly the hard two minutes isnt going to go away / it'll perhaps be replaced by x minutes bursts and cooldowns increased on major buttons for it if they do make wholesale changes in 8.0 which i aint counting on.

i dont think we have the right answers to what 'fixes' summoner. but at least we're sharing ideas.

[Supersnow845]

SMN currently has like 10 buttons, adding 5 summons and like 2 DOT’s wouldn’t even put it close to having too many buttons, the rest of the buttons could be shared like they currently are just doing different things

I’m not really sure why “summon lots of different primals that do different things” feels more like BLU than SMN, like I mean what feels SMN about current SMN that makes my idea feel more like BLU (genuine question)

[Valence]

The sad part of SMN is how easy the job is and how its Actions & Traits make it look like the most galaxybrain job ever. Like VPR as well.

[Carighan]

SMN currently has like 10 buttons, adding 5 summons and like 2 DOT’s wouldn’t even put it close to having too many buttons

I'll argue that if a developer cannot create meaningful gameplay out of 10 buttons, adding a bunch more is only going to make things worse. Look at Astro with its 24 buttons or so and 0 brain usage. Mind you, buttons. Not abilities. FFXIV has so many auto-sequences and mutually exclusive abilities, it could run all jobs on 5-6 buttons at the current "complexity" (sarcasm quotes) easily. Adding more stuff onto jobs is easy, for example one can add a near-infinite amount of minor summons and major summosn to Summoner at no gain of buttons at all. Which is a good thing, even if the underlying combat system is not.

[Khryseis_Astra]

It wouldn’t take any more buttons at all to add more summons. Just use the existing gem buttons to add new triads, first and foremost Levi, Shiva and Ramuh. Only downside is each triad would need to be tied to a particular Demi in order to keep the same buttons to switch out, but we could add just one button that allows us to choose which “team” we use first. But this is what I thought would be the “obvious” reason for the rework, and was so confused when we got Sol. You have the gem system right there!

But since I haven’t mentioned it in the last five minutes, I mean the last few SMN threads, the idea I still like best (that someone else came up with) is adding Levi, Shiva and Ramuh, but then splitting the 6 gems into astral/umbral teams. They added Sol/Light as a Hydaelyn substitute, so that will probably be balanced with something Lunar/Dark for a Zodiark stand-in, maybe Shinryu or Odin. Add one button for astral/umbral switch, so you can choose your starting team. Basic rotation is still cycle through your gems then hit a Demi, but there’s more variety there, and potential for more optimization. I would have each team about the same potency, with their actions being the reason you’d choose to use a particular team at a particular time.

That could eventually be expanded to add more triads in the future, but I think that would become a scenario that wouldn’t really be feasible unless they do custom loadouts for post-100. Otherwise the more gems that get added just lengthen the rotation, whereas adding just Levi, Shiva, Ramuh just gives us a different set to use in between Demis instead of repeating the only 3 we have like we do now.

[Valence]

I'll argue that if a developer cannot create meaningful gameplay out of 10 buttons, adding a bunch more is only going to make things worse. Look at Astro with its 24 buttons or so and 0 brain usage. Mind you, buttons. Not abilities. FFXIV has so many auto-sequences and mutually exclusive abilities, it could run all jobs on 5-6 buttons at the current "complexity" (sarcasm quotes) easily. Adding more stuff onto jobs is easy, for example one can add a near-infinite amount of minor summons and major summosn to Summoner at no gain of buttons at all. Which is a good thing, even if the underlying combat system is not.

I think their design model is more about creating fixed piano sheets, a context within which adding more buttons like you'd get on an instrument becomes more meaningful.

[Raikai]

The least they could do is making the playstyle really distinct for every summon, which they kind of made it for the 3 gemstones we have (though I think it could be a bit better)... But Demis are insufferable being almost reskins of each other.

If they really add 3 new gemstones next, ideally they should make them more cast-time oriented.

[NobleWinter]

It's crazy we have reached a point where we need to ask for cast times on caster... How far have we fallen from grace?

[seolhyun]

It wouldn’t take any more buttons at all to add more summons. Just use the existing gem buttons to add new triads, first and foremost Levi, Shiva and Ramuh. Only downside is each triad would need to be tied to a particular Demi in order to keep the same buttons to switch out, but we could add just one button that allows us to choose which “team” we use first. But this is what I thought would be the “obvious” reason for the rework, and was so confused when we got Sol. You have the gem system right there!

But since I haven’t mentioned it in the last five minutes, I mean the last few SMN threads, the idea I still like best (that someone else came up with) is adding Levi, Shiva and Ramuh, but then splitting the 6 gems into astral/umbral teams. They added Sol/Light as a Hydaelyn substitute, so that will probably be balanced with something Lunar/Dark for a Zodiark stand-in, maybe Shinryu or Odin. Add one button for astral/umbral switch, so you can choose your starting team. Basic rotation is still cycle through your gems then hit a Demi, but there’s more variety there, and potential for more optimization. I would have each team about the same potency, with their actions being the reason you’d choose to use a particular team at a particular time.

That could eventually be expanded to add more triads in the future, but I think that would become a scenario that wouldn’t really be feasible unless they do custom loadouts for post-100. Otherwise the more gems that get added just lengthen the rotation, whereas adding just Levi, Shiva, Ramuh just gives us a different set to use in between Demis instead of repeating the only 3 we have like we do now.

i feel like it would be boring if they alternate the 3 summons every demi. they will end up making shiva levi ramuh copy pastes of the first 3 like how skinny bahamut turned out.

imo they should add the 3 new ones and have all 6 available between every demi but you have to choose which 3 to use. could even make 3 of them mobile and the other 3 longer casts.

[mallleable]

Something I can actually see them do with SMN is make Summon Phoenix it's own cooldown, and when Phoenix is summoned, Phoenix Down has little to no recast time. If/when they allow Phoenix Down in 8 player fights.