real problem with new SMN design, not difficulty it is actually WORSE class fantasy

[GumshoeJump]

Even if the current SMN is more of what people think of when they think of a Final Fantasy summon (standing around doing nothing while a big flashy thing happens on screen) I've just really-- never understood what could possibly make that appealing in an MMO. That just doesn't even begin to sound like fun to me. It's something that works way better in a more traditional Final Fantasy where it's turn based. But this is a real time action game-- hotbars regardless-- where you're meant to be running around and actively participating in a fight. Thus a more fitting SMN would be one where the summons stick around, and you fight alongside them. Y'know-- a Pet Job! I felt way more like I was summoning things back when my egis were chosen situationally based on if I needed aoe-damage, single-target damage, or mitigation.

Additionally, as it's a real-time team game with focus on positioning: you'd want summons that are non-intrusive visually. Egis were small and visually distinct from their larger counterparts for a reason. Otherwise, you end up in the situation we're in, where people who don't play SMN frequently complain about SMNs because their summons are too visually loud. It's particularly severe with the current visual design habits of fights-- sometimes you'll just miss things since Titan's massive, square butt is blocking your screen (maybe we shouldn't need to manually set summon sizes clientside). Every summon-- especially because they're recycling the original raid-wide vfx from the trials-- just makes things needlessly harder to see for everyone, including the person playing summoner! It's not good, I don't know why the job design team decided that the flashier, bigger summons were a good idea. It's like a steady stream of RDM LB3s-- my eyes hurt so, so bad.

I mained SMN in StB and ShB! I was obsessed and I played daily just to play it. And I swear I tried really hard to like new SMN-- and I did for the first few months! Before it sunk in just how empty the job is. I don't think RNG or a nebulous collection of more summons is going to fix the fact that pressing a button to make lights happen is fundamentally unengaging after the 10,000th time you've pressed the button. The "traditional ideal of a Summoner" just isn't fun.

[ThorinG]

Since as Casters we barely do any casting, I think it will be interesting if we have a "Cast phase" then a "Mobility phase" for our rotation, given that the Summon's Favor - where our attacks change to the summons element- is granted at the "Cast phase" but can be activated during the " Mobility phase", it will go like this:
1. In the casting phase, we summon ifrit/Garuda/titan back to back as a hard cast, afterwards, we insta summon Baha/Phnx/SolBaha similar to what we have now.
2. After the Casting phase comes the mobility phase, where we activate the Summon's Favor at any order we want and execute attacks on the move until we go back to summoning again.

For more variety, the summoning roster can change between each casting phase between (ifrit/gauda/titan) and (levi/Ramuh/Shiva).

[Khryseis_Astra]

Yet, that's exactly how "summoning" worked in FFIV and FFVI, so it's not without precedent in the franchise.

The problem is that for that model to work in FFXIV, you probably need 10+ summons with varying characteristics and costs. "Push button to deal damage with a different color" doesn't quite carry the same weight.

That’s where I fell in love with SMN: 4 & 6. Oh the number of summons you could have in 6!!!

They could easily add in at least the remaining 3 elements - Levi, Shiva & Ramuh - as gem summons with their own unique actions, adding more attacks without more buttons. With the rework, it seemed so obvious that that would be the next step, and then we got Sol… and as I’ve mentioned before, I also like the idea of splitting the 6 into astral and umbral teams that can be swapped between. It could still be a simple rotation for new players while allowing more experienced players to optimize.

It could also open up the possibility for them to add more triads of gem summons in the future, though something tells me they won’t. lol I really wonder what the plan is for post-100 job advancement… I could see them adding a way to pick and choose a SMN load out like 16 had, but again I doubt that, because they’d have to add at least one more triad immediately. And what would be the equivalent for other jobs to choose skills from?

But one thing I’m seeing here that I kinda agree with, it does feel odd that we start off with Sol. One of the things I enjoy in a lot of other jobs is the buildup to the more powerful attacks. I feel like SMN’s rotation got modified to appease the opener/burst timing, because otherwise we wouldn’t get to Sol before that ends.

[Carighan]

I hate the wish.com Bahamut. It's such a lame thing to even waste artist time on, when Shiva, Ramuh, Leviathan, soooo many already exists in the game.

Let me summon Doomtrain, Lhakshmi and Gilgamesh, too! Tsukuyomi? <3

[Anvaire]

I hate the wish.com Bahamut. It's such a lame thing to even waste artist time on, when Shiva, Ramuh, Leviathan, soooo many already exists in the game.

Let me summon Doomtrain, Lhakshmi and Gilgamesh, too! Tsukuyomi? <3

im pretty sure the new Bahamut isnt even new, its an adjusted fate boss from lakeland.

[Carighan]

im pretty sure the new Bahamut isnt even new, its an adjusted fate boss from lakeland.

I mean that's - marginally - better. No artist time wasted. :P

Still feels like "Oh we got Bahamut at home" meme stuff...

[MicahZerrshia]

As much as ppl around here hate it, FFXI did amazing things with class fantasy. If you played a smn, sch, thf, war, mnk, whm, rdm, blm, geo, etc you FELT like you were playing that class. SMN had you controlling actual summons who fought for you while you balanced your mp and you could summon Alexander, Odin and others for big attackls on a timer. All summons had lore and had to be earned as well instead of just, hey look I guess I can summon Bahamut now! And don't even get me started on how fantastic blu was in xi compared to the boring side show we got here. Could have put a blue vest and red flannel on me and I would have been the meme when I unlocked that thing. I can only imagine how messed up bst will be, esp compared to bst in xi. If it feels even remotely like we are a beast master I will be surprised since I would bet dollars to donuts its just going to be blu 2.0 but with regulators.

No idea how 1 company can have 2 mmos with the same classes and make one's classes feel so good and so true to their name and history, while the other feels just so so bad and redundant not only compared to the other mmo but also the single player games in the same series.