SUGGESTION: Add to vote dismiss options in FL "Lethargic Play"

[Mawlzy]

Lethargic play in Frontline is a ToS violation. See: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...4efa39f992435a

Currently, the only way of dismissing a lethargic player during the match is to select another reason (most commonly "AFK").

This opens the door for counter-reports for vote dismiss abuse on the grounds the player was not AFK at all, they were simply shuffling in circles near the spawn point.

Another significant advantage of adding "lethargic play" to the vote dismiss menu is that it would be a clear reminder to players that it is a ToS violation.

[Divinemights]

Lethargic play in Frontline is a ToS violation. See: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...4efa39f992435a

Currently, the only way of dismissing a lethargic player during the match is to select another reason (most commonly "AFK").

This opens the door for counter-reports for vote dismiss abuse on the grounds the player was not AFK at all, they were simply shuffling in circles near the spawn point.

Another significant advantage of adding "lethargic play" to the vote dismiss menu is that it would be a clear reminder to players that it is a ToS violation.

I am pretty sure there is already an option, just not wording as "Lethargic Play" literally
You probably end up criticizing English player's ability to read right now, because I can confirm all regions have same options

[Mawlzy]

I am pretty sure there is already an option, just not wording as "Lethargic Play" literally
You probably end up criticizing English player's ability to read right now, because I can confirm all regions have same options

I think the one in vote dismiss closest to the options in the post-match reporting function in English is "harassment" which is also ambiguous.

Edit: Current options in English are:

AFK
Offline
Harassment
Cheating

[Voryn]

It may be better if the “AFK” option was changed to something that more generally includes people who are not playing. “Lethargic play” may be unclear to someone who hasn’t read the TOS, and I imagine that jerks will feel like it’s not an unjustified dismissal when a dungeon tank only does single pulls, or if someone in a party is underperforming despite actually making an effort to play.

Regardless I hope that GMs are actually looking into what happens when a report or counter report are filed.

[Mawlzy]

It may be better if the “AFK” option was changed to something that more generally includes people who are not playing. “Lethargic play” may be unclear to someone who hasn’t read the TOS, and I imagine that jerks will feel like it’s not an unjustified dismissal when a dungeon tank only does single pulls, or if someone in a party is underperforming despite actually making an effort to play.

Regardless I hope that GMs are actually looking into what happens when a report or counter report are filed.

Yeah it's tricky partly because FL plays different to PvE, thus lethargy applies differently.

There was a thread in General months ago in which someone was complaining their "playstyle" was sitting on a node waiting for it to pop, and they picked up a 10-day suspension for it. Have to say I was delighted GMs took action. It also gave me hope reporting lethargic play might actually do something.

But you're right, jerks will always find ways to argue definitions or abuse systems.

[Cidel]

You have "Offline, AFK, Harassment, and Cheating" (and RMT for reports)

Offline doesn't cover it for obvious reasons.

AFK- hmm, maybe, but not really..? AFK implies not doing anything. At all. You have to circumvent the AFK timer to not get auto-kicked.

Harassment- Not quite. I think GMs probably consider harassment in your traditional sense of the term. Like something they can pull up the logs for. But who knows?

Cheating- Again, I think GMs probably intend this to be the more traditional sense like using 3rd party tools and the like. But I dunno, maybe "So-and-so is circumventing the AFK timer" is cheating.

So really, AFK is probably the closest thing we have, but taken to it's most literal definition, not quite the actual reason... I feel like there might have been clarification in that giant ToS dump a year back, but I can't remember.

[Mawlzy]

You have "Offline, AFK, Harassment, and Cheating" (and RMT for reports)

Offline doesn't cover it for obvious reasons.

AFK- hmm, maybe, but not really..? AFK implies not doing anything. At all. You have to circumvent the AFK timer to not get auto-kicked.

Harassment- Not quite. I think GMs probably consider harassment in your traditional sense of the term. Like something they can pull up the logs for. But who knows?

Cheating- Again, I think GMs probably intend this to be the more traditional sense like using 3rd party tools and the like. But I dunno, maybe "So-and-so is circumventing the AFK timer" is cheating.

So really, AFK is probably the closest thing we have, but taken to it's most literal definition, not quite the actual reason... I feel like there might have been clarification in that giant ToS dump a year back, but I can't remember.

This is the pertinent passage from the Director's letter

"1. Uncooperative/Lethargic behavior

All PvP content, including Crystalline Conflict, is intended to be a battle/contest of skill between players. Participants must bring their best to the fight, and for this reason uncooperative or lethargic behavior is prohibited. Let’s strive to do our best even in situations where defeat is imminent, regardless of whether or not you’re interested in the rewards."


I would love to see this statement reissued with some examples of what constitutes lethargic play. IMO if you're not barreling as fast as you can towards a key fight (or occasionally to steal a node), you're not "striving to do your best."

[Avarence]

This only works if you're paying attention to those not contributing and not focused on the fighting/positioning that you should be.
There should be an system/automatic way that SE sets up to detect this behavior and prevent players like that entering.
An open slot is better then a player/bot who is always going 0/7/0 79k

[Mawlzy]

This only works if you're paying attention to those not contributing and not focused on the fighting/positioning that you should be.
There should be an system/automatic way that SE sets up to detect this behavior and prevent players like that entering.

100% agree, this should be the responsibility of GMs, and the only practical way to do that is through specific metrics and auto-kick expansion.

However, until that happens, we have vote dismiss and reports. As you say, implementing a dismiss vote is tough because players who care are focused on the battle. However, I'll often see green dots on the map hovering near base who are clearly violating ToS.

[Cidel]

Until this becomes a problem on the JP data centers, I don't foresee them doing anything more than they already have, unfortunately.