SMN is now the least popular caster again barely one expansion after its rework

[Khryseis_Astra]

I think if they leaned in more on the elemental aspect that would be nice
I've mentioned it before, and I'll probably butcher it again if I try, but having 3 summons for astral and 3 for umbral would be nice

Ifrit, Titan, Garuda, Shiva, Ramuh, Leviathan
Those should really be the summons we have, and they can alternate depending on whether you are under astral or umbral trance

Two of the big summons could even be light and dark to really round things out

That might be a step in the right direction
Because for a job called Summoner, there's a distinct lack of summons you control

There’s a lot of SMN threads in the DPS forum, with a few different versions of this idea, and it’s the one I like best. I’d like to see all 6 elemental summons present, split into astral/umbral teams, with something akin to Transpose that lets us switch between them. The different actions/skills would determine what team you want for dealing with particular mechanics, allowing for low skill floor and high skill ceiling.

What do I think we’ll get next? Another Demi, because I doubt they’re just going to leave it at 3 where one repeats. So fine, we’ll have Bahamut Classic, Phoenix, Sol Bahamut (Light) and they’ll probably give us a Dark, maybe Shinryu or Odin… and that’s fine, IF they give us the other elements and a switch teams button, because just lengthening an already longish rotation with the same three gems in between, locked into an unchangeable order, is insane. lol

For what it’s worth, I’m a caster main, which caster changes every now and then. Started on BLM, and SMN was my second, back at the end of Stormblood, and it’s the one I main right now, after playing RDM for the beginning of EW. The only thing I really miss about old SMN was the DoT spread; that felt really satisfying. I much prefer the flow of current SMN’s rotation and to me it feels more like an old school Final Fantasy Summoner. But it needs more summons. The gems were actually a great framework to add more in, they just haven’t done it.

Imho, SMN is a Summoner. Summons aren’t “pets,” so it’s not really a pet job; and hopefully we’ll get an actually good pet job with Beastmaster that doesn’t feel as clunky. It’s also not a WoW Warlock, and I haven’t played WoW, but I see that comparison a lot and assume it has to do with the DoT spells? That could make an interesting class on its own.

So yeah I actually like new SMN, it just needs more to feel complete. By contrast, PCT feels like a complete, well-designed job with a built-in system for adding new spells/skills with the canvases. We could have that for SMN with more gems and our own version of palette swap or transpose.

[-Xenia-]

If I had to guess, the reason it’s not so popular is because it does the least damage of the casters. In Endwalker, it typically did more damage than red mage and was much easier to play than black mage. Now it does quite a bit less than red mage, and we have pictomancer which still does much more damage than summoner even after the nerf and isn’t very hard to play either.

The Dawntrail changes absolutely were awful, but ease of play is still going to make more people choose it, not less. Not everyone is there for a personal challenge from the job; many instead choose a job based on what it brings to the group. And ease of play is a big benefit to the group.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Not everyone is there for a personal challenge from the job; many instead choose a job based on what it brings to the group. And ease of play is a big benefit to the group.

I also tend to see more people pull out their SMNs when a patch drops - since having rezzes is helpful in content the average casual player doesn't know yet, and having an easy to play class lets you focus more on mechanics.

[ONLYSTEEL]

You’re playing a game where a bathtub or a garden chair sells for 10 times+ more than a piece of max level gear. Please. The gameplay doesn’t even matter at this point because they know that it’s irredeemably bad and as long as they can sell gametime & virtual gimmicks to the house party subscribers they’re happy.

TRUE

[SongOfTheWind]

I started this game to play SB smn, I absolutely loved it. I couldn’t play it anymore with ShB changes and EW then cemented its death to me.
I felt like ok, if they killed it for me then there are at least people who are happy with it? Turns out if you kill an identity of a job - it becomes as easy to pick up as it to be discarded

[Shikiseki]

NGL - the main reason I'm not touching Summoner at the moment is that Solar Bahamut it's really simple as that.

With Pictomancer building the iconic Mog and Madeen summons Eiko was using, it just felt more exciting to see and play.
Aesthetics can make or break a job for me and I'm sure it's not that uncommon in a game focused so much about aesthetics as this one.

(the second reason being the massively unfun rigid 2min locked rotation the job has but that's a whole other can of worms I'm not gonna open again)

[Gaddes]

NGL - the main reason I'm not touching Summoner at the moment is that Solar Bahamut it's really simple as that.

I think it was a really weird call for them to shoehorn Solar Bahamut into the rotation, particularly when we still had plenty of other avatars that would've been way cooler than a brand new Endwalker fanfiction one. Actually, considering the connection to the Moon in that expansion, I think it was a huge missed opportunity that they didn't have than new summon be Fenrir instead. Would've worked great with the theme.

I also just think Solar Bahamut is ugly as sin, lol

[Daralii]

I think it was a really weird call for them to shoehorn Solar Bahamut into the rotation, particularly when we still had plenty of other avatars that would've been way cooler than a brand new Endwalker fanfiction one. Actually, considering the connection to the Moon in that expansion, I think it was a huge missed opportunity that they didn't have than new summon be Fenrir instead. Would've worked great with the theme.

I also just think Solar Bahamut is ugly as sin, lol

Lunar Phoenix as a spoiler-free Zodiark stand-in being the next capstone wouldn't surprise me at all. Reusing the same demis also reduces the amount of time they need to spend rigging, which gives them more time to work on other games.

[Gaddes]

Lunar Phoenix as a spoiler-free Zodiark stand-in being the next capstone wouldn't surprise me at all. Reusing the same demis also reduces the amount of time they need to spend rigging, which gives them more time to work on other games.

If we're talking about re-use Fenrir literally already exists, with animations, in a Heavensward dungeon as a boss. But regardless there are other existing summons/avatars that already exist that they could have used.

[Sifpatata]

So yeahhhhhhh SMN is now a distant last in popularity amongst the casters with every other Carter having near twice the amount of clears and RDM having almost 4 times the clears (it’s even the least popular in casual dungeons and in the alliance raid)

Is this a sign that the rework was a failure? Or that reworks based on popularity aren’t always the most important thing?

How do they justify SMN’s changes as good in the longer term if all it took was one new caster and a few balance changes to send it to the bottom again

Yeaaaaah, I would say that the rework they did has a lot to do with it but the real reason is because the Jobs balance is really bad, look at machinist for example, now they say that in 8.0 they will change things again (I doubt it) but let's hope that in 8.0 they show some love to SMN.