SE isn't hearing the community RE: Job Feedback & Simplification

[Valence]

[AllenThyl]

Are you, or are you not doing the current raid tier, Valence?

[Souljacker]

I find it interesting how up in arms folks are about BLM when basically all they did was revert back to how pre-Enochian BLM played for years. But it's change, and it made the job more popular, and now filthy casuals can play it with a modicum of success again, so it's absolute trash, yea?

I have long said that the complexity should be in the battle content, not the UI. Adding more clocks to a job is NOT innovative design.

I may not like that they are doubling down on this breakneck speed battle design, but I gave up loooong ago on ever seeing anything approaching the nuance levels of FFXI ground kings, or AV, or dare I say Pandemonium, ever again. So yea, bye, Enochian. Hope to never see you again.

[HikariKurosawa]

Are you, or are you not doing the current raid tier, Valence?

Not on MCH, they are parsing orange on BRD and DNC.

That's what most ffxiv players care about, parsing high rather than playing their favorite job. The irony of them posting that gif.

[Supersnow845]

I find it interesting how up in arms folks are about BLM when basically all they did was revert back to how pre-Enochian BLM played for years. But it's change, and it made the job more popular, and now filthy casuals can play it with a modicum of success again, so it's absolute trash, yea?

I have long said that the complexity should be in the battle content, not the UI. Adding more clocks to a job is NOT innovative design.

I may not like that they are doubling down on this breakneck speed battle design, but I gave up loooong ago on ever seeing anything approaching the nuance levels of FFXI ground kings, or AV, or dare I say Pandemonium, ever again. So yea, bye, Enochian. Hope to never see you again.

“Pre enochian BLM”……you mean ARR when fire 4, blizzard 4, thunder 4, paradox, despair, flarestar, xeno, amplifier, and triplecast all didn’t exist? bit hard to say it’s a return to basics when BLM has been consistent in its design since HW with only ARR being a partial outlier.

And its popularity comes from it being made easier, being buffed and having its main competitor nerfed. If your only measure of success is if its popular immediately after its change then you achieve that 100% of the time by simply buffing it when you change it to make it meta. Will it actually stick though? 6.0 SMN and 5.0 MCH say no.

As for complexity being in the battle content I’d prefer all content to be engaging, not 4 savage fights a year. People get bored of casual content because the jobs are only designed to be semi interesting in savage

[Dahlinea]

I find it interesting how up in arms folks are about BLM when basically all they did was revert back to how pre-Enochian BLM played for years. But it's change, and it made the job more popular, and now filthy casuals can play it with a modicum of success again, so it's absolute trash, yea?

What change? Removing 2/3 of its core mechanics and adding nothing new in return to current BLM players? Might as well make BLM's mana pool infinite and let it just cast Fire 4's and Flare Stars without any restriction then.

[HikariKurosawa]

“Pre enochian BLM”……you mean ARR when fire 4, blizzard 4, thunder 4, paradox, despair, flarestar, xeno, amplifier, and triplecast all didn’t exist? bit hard to say it’s a return to basics when BLM has been consistent in its design since HW with only ARR being a partial outlier.

And its popularity comes from it being made easier, being buffed and having its main competitor nerfed. If your only measure of success is if its popular immediately after its change then you achieve that 100% of the time by simply buffing it when you change it to make it meta. Will it actually stick though? 6.0 SMN and 5.0 MCH say no.

As for complexity being in the battle content I’d prefer all content to be engaging, not 4 savage fights a year. People get bored of casual content because the jobs are only designed to be semi interesting in savage

Now that BLM has all that, it doesn't really need timers to keep it interesting and engaging. If anything, it's like the saying "less is more", enochian timer on top of everything else was just too much to manage for the majority of people's tastes.

All content is pretty engaging, you just play the game too much. Jobs are not designed to be "semi interesting" in savage, you just don't enjoy the design philosophy of the game anymore. I'd rather have a well designed slightly simpler rotation that feels really satisfying and good to pull off than something that is so complex that it feels challenging to manage. The highs of the jobs are the animations of the abilities for most people. If you don't enjoy casting big spells like fire 4, flare star, or using abilities like stardiver and midare setsugekka, idunno what to say. The jobs are all incredibly interesting and satisfying to play. You're probably just extremely jaded and should play other games.

[Supersnow845]

Now that BLM has all that, it doesn't really need timers to keep it interesting and engaging. If anything, it's like the saying "less is more", enochian timer on top of everything else was just too much to manage for the majority of people's tastes.

All content is pretty engaging, you just play the game too much. Jobs are not designed to be "semi interesting" in savage, you just don't enjoy the design philosophy of the game anymore. I'd rather have a well designed slightly simpler rotation that feels really satisfying and good to pull off than something that is so complex that it feels challenging to manage. The highs of the jobs are the animations of the abilities for most people. If you don't enjoy casting big spells like fire 4, flare star, or using abilities like stardiver and midare setsugekka, idunno what to say. The jobs are all incredibly interesting and satisfying to play. You're probably just extremely jaded and should play other games.

Notice how when I make a comment I say “I prefer” or “in my opinion”. When you make a comment you use “everyone feels this way” or “for the vast majority of people”

Your entire point here is your own opinion you are trying to sell as the opinion of the community. There is nothing wrong with “me see big nuke me get happy chemicals” but not everybody views the interaction of the jobs and encounters that way. Same as your point that I only think normal encounters are boring because I play too much. Are encounters designed to only be for people who play them like once or twice? Why aren’t they more evergreen?

Just saying “you are jaded get lost” benefits nobody

[HikariKurosawa]

Notice how when I make a comment I say “I prefer” or “in my opinion”. When you make a comment you use “everyone feels this way” or “for the vast majority of people”

Your entire point here is your own opinion you are trying to sell as the opinion of the community. There is nothing wrong with “me see big nuke me get happy chemicals” but not everybody views the interaction of the jobs and encounters that way. Same as your point that I only think normal encounters are boring because I play too much. Are encounters designed to only be for people who play them like once or twice? Why aren’t they more evergreen?

Just saying “you are jaded get lost” benefits nobody

Why are you doing normal content more than once when you're above that level of skill? When I am doing roulettes, I typically just want to chill and flow through the content without needing to engage myself too much. If I wanted difficult and engaging content, I would play it. Normal content IS evergreen if you expect it to be chill levels of engagement. Extreme + Savage + Ultimate content IS evergreen if you want it to be challenging and engaging.

[Supersnow845]

Why are you doing normal content more than once when you're above that level of skill? When I am doing roulettes, I typically just want to chill and flow through the content without needing to engage myself too much. If I wanted difficult and engaging content, I would play it. Normal content IS evergreen if you expect it to be chill levels of engagement. Extreme + Savage + Ultimate content IS evergreen if you want it to be challenging and engaging.

There is a difference between chill and brainless. If I do roulettes I don’t expect them to be hard but I do if they wouldn’t make it so easy for me to just completely mindlessly Zerg them. This is where job complexity comes into play, if a job has levels of optimisation then sure I don’t NEED to optimise to complete a dungeon but it certainly makes it more interesting if I’m in the mood to do something more than spam art of war. I’m not looking for extreme in casual content I just want to feel somewhat engaged in doing the content. If I wanted to be online but be totally not engaged with the game I’d go set up crafting macros