SE isn't hearing the community RE: Job Feedback & Simplification

[Lannia]

Full disclosure; I am (or was) a BLM player normally LMAO but please; just hear out the things I want to discuss and get the thoughts of others on. I just don't feel like the community is being heard while the FFXIV team is focusing on fight design.


Endwalker to Dawntrail Job Changes

Endwalker finishes and Dawntrail is released - it was openly stated that the team would be be focusing on fight design, and job identity would be addressed in 8.0. The statement in itself is not the worst - the level 100 versions of each job are mostly the same as Endwalker, with a few extra QoL changes, finishers, etc. The problem itself (I feel at least) is the dumbing down of almost all jobs since then.

DRK, MNK, DRG, BLM got the worst of it in my own personal feelings, but my point is that almost every job was made *simpler* - after running their courses for however many years in Endwalker. I don't see why the community would want to play almost the same jobs, but with less to them, for another whole expansion of several years? Which leads to my next thoughts: especially with that question in mind, even with a great raid, trial or dungeon, is it still fun if your jobs are simpler than the previous expansion?

The point of discussion I want to raise here with the community is: can you have good raid/trial/dungeon design if don't think the jobs you're playing are fun? In my head, it's like a Ferari on a tiny go-kart track, or some kind of sports race track but you only have a child's tricycle. I feel you need both, not just one or the other.

Pre 7.2 Pictomancer

Before I say my next point, a disclaimer: I have been playing on and off since Heavensward, but consider Shadowbringers the point where I really started getting into the game, so I do not know all the history of job balance. However, I can't think of any point in the games lifespan, where I've been playing or not, that has had a class as problematic as Pictomancer pre 7.2.

Why I think this is probably the most important part of why I feel SE is not hearing the community, is probably because.. it broke almost all of the content for a long time. Fights were ending so quickly that several mechanics were being skipped, in all difficulties of content across several different, previously end-game, level brackets. Everyone knew this, everyone knew that the class described as a 'no raise caster with a raid buff but will do less damage than black mage' shouldn't be doing the insane damage it did, and beating every other class by a mile regardless of whether it had downtime or not.

But SE flat out refused to listen to the community to nerf the job because it is a selling point of the expansion, even though it was breaking the games own content. This was happening for roughly 267 days (Dawntrail released on July 2, 2024, and the 7.2 adjustments were on March 25, 2025).

[Lannia]

Conclusion & why this concerns me

I won't sugar coat it - the Black Mage changes was the breaking point for how I feel abut job direction LMAO, but it is more than that.

I don't want to play simpler, dumbed down jobs until 8.0 - that is 3 years of the expansion's estimated lifespan, that I feel like no good content can keep me around for :/ The 7.2 raids are (as they should be) being praised on their release and as savage has begun this week. It breathes fresh life into the battle content. My feelings are just.. I have like 1 job left that I want to play, maybe 2? There are 21 jobs (plus BLU) so it just feels wrong, which comes down to the fact that most jobs are the same or have been made simpler than they were in the previous expansion.

I want diversity in complexity levels across a role: if there are 4 casters, 1 should be high skill ceiling, 1 should be low, and the other two are somewhere in the middle. There should be at least 1 harder tank (GBR? DRK got cooked), one harder shield healer (SCH), one harder pure healer (AST). Why can't the DPS role have a good mix of difficulty across each sub-role? I am struggling with the feeling that SE is ignoring the community's feedback, to the point of despair in particular with the idea that they're just going to ignore the massive backlash of BLM changes in 7.2 and we'll have to wait for 8.0 job identity addressing that might not even come - in over 2 more years time.

[ovIm]

I don't want to play simpler, dumbed down jobs until 8.0.

What makes you think we will get more interesting job mechanics with 8.0? There is not a singular reason to trust their promises any more. Or even provide feedback, as it is being ignored.

A year ago, Yoshi-P said that they would stop making jobs simpler - now look at the track record of Dawntrail. Viper got neutered within 4 weeks of its release (with positive feedback on the forums being acknowledged and ignored). Summoner has become even more simple with 7.1 (a feat no one thought possible). To make things like the dancing interruption of M5 work without upsetting casters, casting got neutered.

And at this point, really, it feels like CS3 do not care about feedback. They will sand down jobs and we either have to learn to like that or get told to quit.

Yes, this is a very downer post. But with how things have developed, I simply lost all hope and trust in the devs.

[ThurinTurambar]

There is also case of trampling over older content with for example darknight and now machinist (probably more as well, but i play those often so i noticed those)

Darknight lost plunge damage and 2 stacks of blood weapon, both of which affecting content all the way from 50+ and that damage only got 'refunded' in 90+ level range.

Now machinist got hit with a huge nerf to its base aoe, only getting the damage 'back' in 90+ range with the splash aoe buff.



But on positive note, i like how current reaper plays, dawntrail additions were pretty nice and allow for some cooking (classic double enshrouds, alternative ones, using communio and perfectio as uptime tools)

[Asari5]

if i would stop playing now (which i wont for now because of habits i guess) and if they would ask me why i stop playing (which they dont as far as i know because they dont care) i would say:
'there isnt a single job left i wholeheartedly like'

[HikariKurosawa]

The whole concept of "pandering to tourists and not the core audience" is the whole reason these changes are essential to the success of the game. Key word "tourists". They want them to switch from being tourists into being the core audience. The fact that the majority of players are "tourists" means that they are failing to achieve mass appeal with the game. Yoshi p says stuff like "just unsubscribe and play other games while you wait for content to come out" but the reality is that's really not a good model for financial success. It would be better if most people wanted to stay around longterm for the gameplay, and that's the direction the game is headed.

I keep saying this stuff over and over but you guys just don't get it. This is capitalism. They don't care about a minority who "keeps the game afloat" during periods without new content, they want the majority to play the game and maintain their subscriptions for those periods too. That's how they really make money. By appealing to the masses. Not by pandering to niche audiences. It's why it doesn't matter at all if you are upset by the game becoming more mainstream in the job design, it doesn't matter if you unsubscribe if the "tourists" become consistent subscribers. You're literally nobody in comparison to the majority.

Honestly too, I doubt you are keeping the game afloat during windows of no fresh content. The subscriptions from the "tourists" during fresh content windows are what keeps the game afloat. The number of people who want the game to be pandering to the "core" audience could never keep the game alive.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

In relation with Picto and its nerf. Even tho I do agree it needed a nerf BUT right now it seems they went overbroad with the nerf. First the standard rotation is now a dps loss in full uptime fights and to get the most out of the job you have to skip the odd min hammer meaning that just more filler spam and because hammer is a charge action you have to let it sit one charge for pretty much all the fight which IMO is really really dumb. Though I know its early, the logs are showing PCT is now just above RDM in dps, and I think that not good for PCT at all. Now groups are asking, why bring a PCT when you can bring an RDM who can rez as our caster? and why bring a PCT as the flex spot when you can have another melee or a BLM?

I am and all ways a believer PCT should not be anywhere near RDM and SMN in DPS. It should be in the middle, the other melee with buffs(Nin, RPR, DRG, and MNK). To mean SQ just ruin yet another caster just like they did with smn. At this point, just delete casters all together and just have melee...to me it's clear now they would rather ppl play melee anyway.

[Supersnow845]

Yeah the way they changed PCT and the melee’s is super problematic. We are basically back to EW job balancing. VPR is 12% ahead of every other class in M6, the melees dominate the top spots for 0 reason and BLM sits up with the melees while PCT is now barely holding onto being better than RDM

The devs never said it was designed to do less than BLM. They said it was meant to compete with BLM and the melees. With these changes in one patch they have made it have basically no niche and made its rotation feel like trash. No wonder people didn’t trust them to nerf it

[Rithy255]

Yeah the way they changed PCT and the melee’s is super problematic. We are basically back to EW job balancing. VPR is 12% ahead of every other class in M6, the melees dominate the top spots for 0 reason and BLM sits up with the melees while PCT is now barely holding onto being better than RDM

The devs never said it was designed to do less than BLM. They said it was meant to compete with BLM and the melees. With these changes in one patch they have made it have basically no niche and made its rotation feel like trash. No wonder people didn’t trust them to nerf it

Castertrail is over now we're back to Meleewalker.

Though honestly i dislike how high black mage is currently, for how much little effort it is compared to endwalker, I think it should be under most melee's quite honestly. BLM should be where it's at now IF it actually requires more skill at the high end.

It's quite funny how high it is but a lot of people still are playing pictomancer, almost like people just really enjoy pictomancer despite that black mage is currently doing so much better, almost like simple/boring designs don't always actually attract players.

[Supersnow845]

Castertrail is over now we're back to Meleewalker.

Though honestly i dislike how high black mage is currently, for how much little effort it is compared to endwalker, I think it should be under most melee's quite honestly. BLM should be where it's at now IF it actually requires more skill at the high end.

It's quite funny how high it is but a lot of people still are playing pictomancer, almost like people just really enjoy pictomancer despite that black mage is currently doing so much better, almost like simple/boring designs don't always actually attract players.

I don’t think BLM being easy is an excuse to put it under the melees because a lot of the melees are easy as well. M6 is warping around VPR and VPR is competing with SMN for title of “biggest void of class design”

The balance is just back to making no sense. At least pre 7.2 while PCT was overpowered most other jobs positions made decent sense (RDM has always been too underpowered), now it’s just……..what