SE isn't hearing the community RE: Job Feedback & Simplification

[Supersnow845]

^notice how almost all of your counters are either “M6 or older than EW”

That’s the entire point. Content design in EW and then going into DT with M6 as an exception is stale as hell. We had all these things and we traded them for a whatever the fresh trash pandemonium was

[HikariKurosawa]

^notice how almost all of your counters are either “M6 or older than EW”

That’s the entire point. Content design in EW and then going into DT with M6 as an exception is stale as hell. We had all these things and we traded them for a whatever the fresh trash pandemonium was

Crazy bad takes.

[Supersnow845]

A very convincing argument

[AllenThyl]

You are taking valence’s point so hilariously literally to the point you have actually completely missed their point. They aren’t saying “the fact that you move is bad game design” they are saying “the fact that in the modern game the only way that mechanics resolve themselves is move here->something resolves->move here->something else resolves” is tired and limiting to encounter and job design because it removes every other facet of potential encounter design (the “everything is just stack and spread” is proxy for mechanics being solved by them just exploding around the player as the player moves in a calculated dance)

If Valence doesn't want to say that, then Valence needs to stop writing the words that say that. "They're all the same mechanics with the same basic spread/stack/spread/donut legos DDR with a boss in the middle of a circle.". You needing to come in here with buckets of goodwill to recontextualize even the most simplest of statements does not really help the way you think it does. At the end of the day, the point still stands, that all of you fail to explain how the implementation of any of your wishlist's items will result in a fundamentally different fight design which doesn't fail your own (deeply dishonest) criteria with which you fail the current one.

This is why M6S’s add phase is being so highly praised; because the resolution of it doesn’t just involve moving around in a calculated way while the mechanics go off around you. It forces you to move the mechanics around you

Man, are you even doing that fight? I swear, this is "Nael phase is truly random" all over again. PF is failing so hard at this phase because it doesn't have the correct and pretty precise movement pattern down to maximize damage on the adds. The very key to this phase is coupling people's burst abilities to specific enemies which spawn at exact points in time.

If you take valence’s point as simply “the fact you have to move is bad” then yeah sure their point seems strange, but that’s because that’s not their point

No, you hope it's not their point. But given the amount of opportunities in various threads that presented themselves to clarify on this one point and utterly failing every time (including this one again, because despite it initially being about fight design, they answered with some job design stuff again, because of pretty abysmal reading comprehension), it's pretty clear that the whole "it's all just DDR" is just some baseless phrase to slag on the game, just for the sake of slagging. But of course, called out on it, it's always the same "oh but only do that because we cArE about the game". Gimme a break.

^notice how almost all of your counters are either “M6 or older than EW”

That’s the entire point. Content design in EW and then going into DT with M6 as an exception is stale as hell. We had all these things and we traded them for a whatever the fresh trash pandemonium was

I expected better of you, really. The topic that was brought up was that "they're all the same mechanic", so I asked what's the alternative, and another poster posted these alternatives, and I pointed out how basically all the proposed alternatives have in same way or another be used in various content throughout expansion, even included p5s and p12s. That's the problem with all these discussions, nothing that SE could do would ever satisfy the dishonest requirements set out here, since they aren't set up to be met, only as thin justification to slag on the game in the forums. "every boss is a circular area", except that this tier literally features a boss turning the area into various landscapes, and one jumping between 3 different ones, with the 2nd one being an elongated rectangular, with additional walls that facilitate asymmetrical boss placement. The m8 circle area is significantly smaller than the "usual" arena. p6 featured a platform consisting of 3 circle areas, p2 encloses the area in a rectangular ring shape. The final boss of Yuweyawata Field Station is fought on a ring platform. So, is that, or is that not listening to player feedback about arena design?

[Supersnow845]

^you pointed our one or two examples for each mechanic (except the ones you just said you don’t like that particular mechanic) most of which were either M6 or pre EW, this isn’t just “I want to rant” it’s more so that they need to do this more often. The expansion cadence in this game is too slow to give us once out there fight every 2 patches. I’ll praise the devs when they do something interesting, M6 is fantastic both normal and savage, but that can’t be all, they need to do more in order to be interesting. In the nicest way possible it speaks a lot to design that you point to 8 being a “smaller circle” arena as something worthy of praise.

People don’t want to hate just for no reason

[HikariKurosawa]

People don’t want to hate just for no reason

No, they want to hate because they look for external factors to blame for their jaded mentality. Instead of fixing your own mentality and attitude, you want square enix to change the game in ways you cant even clearly articulate so that you can finally enjoy the game again.

Maybe the problem is just you and your negativity? How are you going to enjoy an activity that you are so negative toward? You aren't even trying to enjoy it as it is, you want it to be something it is not. Lot of it is sunk cost fallacy, a lot of it is addiction, a lot of it is legitimate mental illness and maladaptive behavior patterns.

The game is not going to fix your negative mindset. That's on you, and if you're not able to have fun as it is, just move on and play something else. There are countless games out there. Don't waste your life on one you don't enjoy when the majority of those engaging with it do enjoy it for what it is. Maybe you aren't the target demographic, or maybe you just have a really bad mentality. Either way, you should step back and re-evaluate your engagement with it. The devs should absolutely not listen to people like you.

Like honestly, every single trial and raid I have played in this game from endwalker onward has been immensely enjoyable and compelling mechanically. They are extremely creative and unique encounters at all levels of play, and it only becomes more engaging and interesting as you go to higher levels of difficulty. You don't give the devs the credit they deserve, instead you pout and expect more and more like a spoiled brat. Even dungeons are extremely interesting and satisfying. We are playing the same game, through a very different mindset. The problem is you and I'm not even gaslighting, it's just the reality of it. You either don't enjoy ffxiv, or you have a really busted and entitled perspective.

[Supersnow845]

snip

If I didn’t like the game anymore I wouldn’t be here anymore. Before you dump your first year c- psych essay on me maybe consider the fact that a person can like parts of the game and want other part to be better or different. This isn’t hard to understand. It’s a theme park MMO

I still love my character. I still love PCT (despite what they changed about it), I still love my friends I made in this game, I still love crafting in this game, I still love field content

It’s the parts I don’t like because of changes that I don’t like that I’d like them to improve. If I reached a point where i enjoyed nothing about the game I wouldn’t still be here and it’s honestly DT’s positive changes that have kept me. The promise of field content is a powerful reason why I’m still here

It speaks a lot that you replied to a comment that I straight up complimented aspects that I’m glad they experimented with and simply said they need to do that more often. If you think every fight since the start of EW has been flawless then more power to you but if I was having as much fun constantly as you claim you are I wouldn’t be on the forums I’d be playing the game. I’m here because I have elements I like and elements I want changed. You can argue I’m screaming at a brick wall and I probably am. But I understand my relationship to this game as weird as that sounds and if I truly was getting no enjoyment out of it I’d leave. I don’t need other people to be praising the game to justify my enjoyment or lack thereof because when I’m enjoying the game I’m playing it

[HikariKurosawa]

If I didn’t like the game anymore I wouldn’t be here anymore. Before you dump your first year c- psych essay on me maybe consider the fact that a person can like parts of the game and want other part to be better or different. This isn’t hard to understand. It’s a theme park MMO

I still love my character. I still love PCT (despite what they changed about it), I still love my friends I made in this game, I still love crafting in this game, I still love field content

It’s the parts I don’t like because of changes that I don’t like that I’d like them to improve. If I reached a point where i enjoyed nothing about the game I wouldn’t still be here and it’s honestly DT’s positive changes that have kept me. The promise of field content is a powerful reason why I’m still here

It speaks a lot that you replied to a comment that I straight up complimented aspects that I’m glad they experimented with and simply said they need to do that more often. If you think every fight since the start of EW has been flawless then more power to you but if I was having as much fun constantly as you claim you are I wouldn’t be on the forums I’d be playing the game. I’m here because I have elements I like and elements I want changed. You can argue I’m screaming at a brick wall and I probably am. But I understand my relationship to this game as weird as that sounds and if I truly was getting no enjoyment out of it I’d leave. I don’t need other people to be praising the game to justify my enjoyment or lack thereof because when I’m enjoying the game I’m playing it

For sure, I'm talking about the parts you are taking issue with though. You have two options pretty much: a) stop playing the parts of the game you don't enjoy, b) stop being so negative and learn to manage your expectations + adapt to the game as it is.

I never claimed you didn't enjoy the game at all, nor do I care whether you do enjoy it. That's irrelevant in this context. If you enjoy those parts of the game, play it for those reasons. If you want to engage in the dungeons and raids, accept them as they are and have fun, or learn to give constructive criticism rather than just moaning about how much you hate what that aspect of the game has become.

"If you think every fight since the start of EW has been flawless then more power to you but if I was having as much fun constantly as you claim you are I wouldn’t be on the forums I’d be playing the game." I'm not desperate for fun. I enjoy everything I do, or I wouldn't be doing it. There is no shortage of entertaining things for me to engage in currently. If I am in the mood to play this game, I will play it, if not, I will be engaged with something else. The game isn't going anywhere and the content is always going to be relevant.

[Supersnow845]

For sure, I'm talking about the parts you are taking issue with though. You have two options pretty much: a) stop playing the parts of the game you don't enjoy, b) stop being so negative and learn to manage your expectations + adapt to the game as it is.

I never claimed you didn't enjoy the game at all, nor do I care whether you do enjoy it. That's irrelevant in this context. If you enjoy those parts of the game, play it for those reasons. If you want to engage in the dungeons and raids, accept them as they are and have fun, or learn to give constructive criticism rather than just moaning about how much you hate what that aspect of the game has become.

"If you think every fight since the start of EW has been flawless then more power to you but if I was having as much fun constantly as you claim you are I wouldn’t be on the forums I’d be playing the game." I'm not desperate for fun. I enjoy everything I do, or I wouldn't be doing it. There is no shortage of entertaining things for me to engage in currently. If I am in the mood to play this game, I will play it, if not, I will be engaged with something else. The game isn't going anywhere and the content is always going to be relevant.

It’s easy to say “give constructive criticism not bemoan the state of the game” when my criticism is just “stop reducing the complexity of the jobs”. Like the long and short of my feedback for the 7.2 BLM change is that nothing about it is better than it was in 7.1 and it’s a flat downgrade. What criticism do you expect me to offer?

This is the core of why I come off so negative to you, because my criticism to basically every job change since 6.3 PLD is basically “in my eyes changing nothing is better than going through with the changes you are going through with right now”. Sure I could now look at 7.2 BLM and go “well I now notice that paradox seems to be vestigial in the kit” but that’s basically just an aside to the fact that nothing they did with 7.2 BLM as an example is a positive in my eyes.

If this was content I would drop it. I’ve already dropped savage and I dropped DD’s when they made them too solo focused (EO). The jobs however you can’t escape, you HAVE to engage with them to play anything. How do you propose I “meaningfully and constructively” convey that they have basically not made a single change since 6.3 to any job where my feedback amounts to “doing literally nothing is better than what you intend to do”. I used to write reams and reams of design ideas for healers in ShB but now it just feels like trying to stem the bleeding. A constant stream of just “please don’t do that”

What is an example of a feedback from my position about 7.1 vs 7.2 BLM that you would have “accepted” even if you didn’t agree with it? Im genuinely curious

[meie]

Going back to the title, here is my crackpot theory on what is going on. Its not like they don't listen, but they lack the resources, to engage with it. At the moment it seems like every change is just a reactionary adjustment for upcoming extreme/savage/ultimate. When Thinking about the 8.0 I can see them more focusing on the leveling experience, making every class kid available already in earlier levels. No idea what is going to happen for endgame content in 8.0