SE isn't hearing the community RE: Job Feedback & Simplification

[HikariKurosawa]

There is a difference between chill and brainless. If I do roulettes I don’t expect them to be hard but I do if they wouldn’t make it so easy for me to just completely mindlessly Zerg them. This is where job complexity comes into play, if a job has levels of optimisation then sure I don’t NEED to optimise to complete a dungeon but it certainly makes it more interesting if I’m in the mood to do something more than spam art of war. I’m not looking for extreme in casual content I just want to feel somewhat engaged in doing the content. If I wanted to be online but be totally not engaged with the game I’d go set up crafting macros

That's interesting. You choose to mindlessly zerg them because the bar for a clear is so low, rather than creating your own engagement. You can get away with "spamming art of war", so you choose to do so rather than actually engaging with your kit even though it's not necessary for the clear.

It's normal content. If you want to be engaged and use your kit, you are free to overkill it. It's never going to be challenging the way you seem to want it to be though, because it has to be easy for the people who only play for the story.

If you want to be engaged, then be engaged. If you need something external to push you to engage, maybe it's a you problem like I keep saying. Just because it's not necessary, doesn't mean you can't do it. The onus is on you in regular difficulty content. There's nothing stopping you from pushing more buttons. It's actually good practice for content where you actually need to rely on the full kit, because you aren't stressed out when executing in regular content.

Always something external to blame huh?

[Supersnow845]

That's interesting. You choose to mindlessly zerg them because the bar for a clear is so low, rather than creating your own engagement. You can get away with "spamming art of war", so you choose to do so rather than actually engaging with your kit even though it's not necessary for the clear.

It's normal content. If you want to be engaged and use your kit, you are free to overkill it. It's never going to be challenging the way you seem to want it to be though, because it has to be easy for the people who only play for the story.

If you want to be engaged, then be engaged. If you need something external to push you to engage, maybe it's a you problem like I keep saying. Just because it's not necessary, doesn't mean you can't do it. The onus is on you in regular difficulty content. There's nothing stopping you from pushing more buttons. It's actually good practice for content where you actually need to rely on the full kit, because you aren't stressed out when executing in regular content.

Always something external to blame huh?

That’s the entire point, the jobs are so barebones and streamlined there is nothing “more” for me to do beyond zerging mindless content because the jobs ceilings are on the floor. SCH literally has 1 AOE that’s not AOW; and it’s locked behind a two minute CD. How am I supposed to do “more” than pressing one single AOE button; sure I can use some of my heals as if the damage put out by enemies actually mattered. But you are maybe the only person I know who pressing soil for the mitigation when the mitigation was never needed in the first place counts as engagement

This is why job complexity is more important than encounter complexity. Because job complexity allows you to choose how much you want to engage with any level of content difficulty. Rather than just telling anyone who doesn’t have an aneurism trying to figure out what pot of greed does to play extreme or get lost

If you want super simple play a simple job in simple content, if you want something in the middle try to optimise a complex job in simple content or play an easy job in hard content, if you want a super challenge then play a hard job in hard content. Right now 1 and 3 are your only options

[HikariKurosawa]

If you want super simple play a simple job in simple content, if you want something in the middle try to optimise a complex job in simple content or play an easy job in hard content, if you want a super challenge then play a hard job in hard content. Right now 1 and 3 are your only options

Sorry but, 1 2 and 3 are options by your own logic. If 3 is an option, you are implying that hard jobs exist, so just play a hard job in simple content and optimize it. Healer is always going to be the easiest role in normal content for mmo. That's just the way it works. So if you want to be engaged in simple content, just dont play healer. Me personally, I find healer engaging enough in regular content because I actually play the game for fun and do what I want rather than doing strictly what is necessary. If somebody has an issue with me using my healing kit to the fullest, that's just weird. I find it fun and cozy for the group to feel extra safe with mitigation and healing. Like if I am healing a dungeon, there is absolutely no chance anyone will feel at risk. Maybe if you are healing and spamming one button aoe while only healing if necessary, the tank will be worrying whether they can survive wall to wall or not.

[Supersnow845]

Sorry but, 1 2 and 3 are options by your own logic. If 3 is an option, you are implying that hard jobs exist, so just play a hard job in simple content and optimize it. Healer is always going to be the easiest role in normal content for mmo. That's just the way it works. So if you want to be engaged in simple content, just dont play healer. Me personally, I find healer engaging enough in regular content because I actually play the game for fun and do what I want rather than doing strictly what is necessary. If somebody has an issue with me using my healing kit to the fullest, that's just weird. I find it fun and cozy for the group to feel extra safe with mitigation and healing. Like if I am healing a dungeon, there is absolutely no chance anyone will feel at risk. Maybe if you are healing and spamming one button aoe while only healing if necessary, the tank will be worrying whether they can survive wall to wall or not.

Option 3 was play an easy job in hard content, so your options are play an easy job in easy content or play an easy job in hard content, my point is all 4 options should exist, you should have the option to play a hard job in easy content

And let’s forget for a moment it’s dumb to relegate an entire role to one difficulty when there are multiple jobs what other role am I supposed to play. Remember you cheer on every time they simplify hard jobs, like I can’t even optimise BLM in easy content because of the changes making it optimise itself. ShB killed the physical ranged, the casters died their final death in 7.2, the tanks died in 5.0 and the melees have always been designed where their AOE rotations are an afterthought after TP was deleted

[HikariKurosawa]

Option 3 was play an easy job in hard content, so your options are play an easy job in easy content or play an easy job in hard content, my point is all 4 options should exist, you should have the option to play a hard job in easy content

And let’s forget for a moment it’s dumb to relegate an entire role to one difficulty when there are multiple jobs what other role am I supposed to play. Remember you cheer on every time they simplify hard jobs, like I can’t even optimise BLM in easy content because of the changes making it optimise itself

If BLM optimizes itself post changes then it was the same thing prior to the changes. Either that or you have a different definition of optimization than me. Think about what you just said and how it relates to the gameplay of BLM.

I don't agree that this game doesn't have complex job options, but hey you're entitled to feel that way. I think it makes sense why you feel that way when you're only doing what is necessary to succeed.

[Carighan]

Option 3 was play an easy job in hard content, so your options are play an easy job in easy content or play an easy job in hard content, my point is all 4 options should exist, you should have the option to play a hard job in easy content

Question: How would you balance them? Who would deal the most damage at the top end?

[Supersnow845]

Question: How would you balance them? Who would deal the most damage at the top end?

Depends on the content, a hard class shouldn’t do more damage by default compared to giving classes different niches but it also should potentially be offered some other benefits such as potentially more powerful utility (like RDM’s raise being stronger than SMN’s as a reward for its complexity over SMN as a super simple example)

[Carighan]

Depends on the content, a hard class shouldn’t do more damage by default compared to giving classes different niches but it also should potentially be offered some other benefits such as potentially more powerful utility (like RDM’s raise being stronger than SMN’s as a reward for its complexity over SMN as a super simple example)

That'd be a way of doing it, because otherwise most groups would just hard-exclude the harder classes as by their nature they got a larger chance to screw up and wipe the groups. But if the utility-ladden classes were the same DPS as the DPS-only classes but with extra difficulty heaped on top, that'd be a way of balancing it.

Of course this means content can never be balanced to request the utility these classes bring (as otherwise it'd be undoable without them), and that in turn means that most content becomes easier than intended with them, but that's a nearly unsolvable issue regardless. It's always either "Stuff too easy with the better class" vs "Harder class excluded because not better in any way".

[Reginald_Cain]

These devs know the game is only 2-3 expansions away from going into life support like ff11 and square will make a new mmo for 17, make it bad for the first version and mid for arr then the first expansion will be decent after lots of patches and the cycle continues. Just hope the gameplay is cooler looking.

[Reginald_Cain]

99% of the "feedback" that's on official forums is negative. Say anything remotely postive about anything in the game and you literally get attacked by a pack of wolves here.

And people here wonder why SE doesn't listen to the feedback that's posted 'here' specifically. Now its all people who in their heads genuinely believe they are giving "constructive" criticism.

A lot of people here need to just move on from the game. Its like they wake up every single day looking for something new to hate about the game. *at some point its just no longer constructive criticism* Move on.

It's still unreasonable to be this incompetent and out of touch with machinist job decisions for three expansions so sorry we refuse to glaze after they shit on what we like and say pLeAsE lOoK FoRwArD tO iT!