Tanks Help me out

[CKNovel]

The answer is that it depends.

Alone? You'll die.
With 2/3 good DPS? You'll kill the trash before they're even a danger.

The rhetoric that healers are useless is half true. In dungeon they exist to throw a party wide oGCD healing here and there and to res KO'd players.
Since trash pack damages are entirely focused on one target, 3/4 of the Healing kit is useless.

[Laerune]

As a healer, it depends on the skill of the player. That said, from personal experience 90% of wall to wall pulls with Dark Knight have always resulted in me using majority of my spells. With other jobs, I dps more than heal.

[Valence]

Reducing tanks’s ability to stay alive means now you need both your tank and healer in duty roulette to know how to play the game, which would be simultaneously a blessing and a curse. But it would cause problems with high end content that’s designed with these kits in mind, like it’s a big deal that we can press TBN/Bloodwhetting/Sheltron/Corundum as many times as we can in DSR phase 6 because it has five tankbusters. I think the devs have put themselves into a corner in this regard, and if they ever want normal difficulty content to ask more of tanks/healers then they’d have to increase its damage but they might not be able to take away tank abilities unless other things change (like by moving the ability to keep tanks alive more towards just being healers’ responsibility, which again is both a blessing and curse).

I hardly think it's a problem. Tanks can keep their mitigation on their defensives if it's about busters. They don't need all the bloated healing that comes with it. Even in savage/ultimate tanks can take care of themselves without a healer in 99% of the cases.

[Rithy255]

I hardly think it's a problem. Tanks can keep their mitigation on their defensives if it's about busters. They don't need all the bloated healing that comes with it. Even in savage/ultimate tanks can take care of themselves without a healer in 99% of the cases.

Problem is you go from not healing to the tank to healing them like once every minute because the mitigation, taking no damage from auto's is a big part into why tanks feel so invincible.

Sustain is only one part of the problem.

[Valence]

Problem is you go from not healing to the tank to healing them like once every minute because the mitigation, taking no damage from auto's is a big part into why tanks feel so invincible.

Sustain is only one part of the problem.

Depends of the fight. MIL at release for P5S and P8S notably, every auto ate like 20% of the tank HP bar. Force them to spread their mits more that way, and again, make healers take care of them, back then it was... still an afterthought because tanks could heal themselves anyway.
But more than anything, we've lost random crits and mini busters, so of course this is getting stale and plannable through spreadsheets.

[Rithy255]

Depends of the fight. MIL at release for P5S and P8S notably, every auto ate like 20% of the tank HP bar. Force them to spread their mits more that way, and again, make healers take care of them, back then it was... still an afterthought because tanks could heal themselves anyway.
But more than anything, we've lost random crits and mini busters, so of course this is getting stale and plannable through spreadsheets.

I did mention that sustain is only part of the problem, because i would still most certainly nerf it, warrior being a prime example but other tanks like paladin/gnb could lose some

But tackling the mitigation is very important, it's important to not just go "oh remove all sustain" as it can play into a jobs identity, y'know as a "Paladin" I want at least some healing related cooldowns (because SE will never make a melee based healer), as a Warrior I think cooldowns like equilibrium are nice just the regen and all the other stuff added, where now its not just a sustain cooldown, your entire kit has sustain which is a problem

I'd see it as more scaling back on the base kits rather then just tackling sustain which i think is the most healthy way of putting tanks back in line without taking away stuff directly, maybe warrior would need to be a exception because the state of bloodwhetting in AOE is not ok, every cooldown even your 40% having a heal attached is really poorly designed.

[Valence]

I did mention that sustain is only part of the problem, because i would still most certainly nerf it, warrior being a prime example but other tanks like paladin/gnb could lose some

But tackling the mitigation is very important, it's important to not just go "oh remove all sustain" as it can play into a jobs identity, y'know as a "Paladin" I want at least some healing related cooldowns (because SE will never make a melee based healer), as a Warrior I think cooldowns like equilibrium are nice just the regen and all the other stuff added, where now its not just a sustain cooldown, your entire kit has sustain which is a problem

I'd see it as more scaling back on the base kits rather then just tackling sustain which i think is the most healthy way of putting tanks back in line without taking away stuff directly, maybe warrior would need to be a exception because the state of bloodwhetting in AOE is not ok, every cooldown even your 40% having a heal attached is really poorly designed.

I do agree, and I actually was a big fan of the clear design difference there was between PLD and WAR back in ARR/HW. WAR had no inherent mitigation, it was all about healing buffs and self healing to make up for it. It was a totally different experience than tanking as a PLD. But guess what current WAR does? It does MIT like any other tank, and SELF HEALS like there is no tomorrow (and no skill behind it either, which is another can of worms).

If we want to have mitigators, shields/barrier, self healing, leech heals, or anything else of flavor, then tanks should pick one, not all of them.

[PercibelTheren]

A DRK who knows how to properly rotate mits will barely take any damage. GNB has basically the same self healing as a Paladin. Unless your gear is way below par, healing is very rarely needed, usually only when the DPS is low and things take forever to die.

[AzizaToinette]

It depends on your experience with the job, the dmg heaviness from mobs in the duty and your gear.
I have been whm main over 5 years now and I sometimes get tanks..gnb inclusive, who need little to 0 healing in a wall to wall pull. If I see a tank who mit well, don't drop hp too fast, and mobs who will die before the tank can reach 0hp I won't heal if I don't have asize or a lily I have to uncap.

I do not believe in healing someone who does a fine job healing themselves so for me... if my tank can handle themselves it's a huge plus.

I also believe it raise a players class experience and technical flair that they get a chance to relly on their own toolkit more than on mine, so thumbs up for wanting to experiment with being self sufficient in pulls.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

It depends on your experience with the job, the dmg heaviness from mobs in the duty and your gear.
I have been whm main over 5 years now and I sometimes get tanks..gnb inclusive, who need little to 0 healing in a wall to wall pull. If I see a tank who mit well, don't drop hp too fast, and mobs who will die before the tank can reach 0hp I won't heal if I don't have asize or a lily I have to uncap.

I do not believe in healing someone who does a fine job healing themselves so for me... if my tank can handle themselves it's a huge plus.

I also believe it raise a players class experience and technical flair that they get a chance to relly on their own toolkit more than on mine, so thumbs up for wanting to experiment with being self sufficient in pulls.

I'm of a similar mind here, which is why I usually would prefer if Healer jobs had more interesting combat flair (i.e. more interesting damage loops/flowcharts than 21111111111[...] or 33333333 for AOE). I mean either that or MMORPG content goes back to actually making trinity stuff more relevant again by turning damage up.

It's just that right now, incoming damage is too low for what insane sustain and mitigation tools we have + healer (and even tank) damage gameplay is boring. It's dreadful.