Please reduce tank healing power by a lot

[Rithy255]

I used to main PLD before the goring blade change when I tanked. This was from ARR to EW.

Then warrior got immortal mode and I thought ' If you can't beat them join them'

As a healer main, when I want to tank I just use WAR and make healers do nothinggggg. I do dungeons alot and if I get a SCH their poor excog can't even proc before it's proc on the expire.

I really hope they nerf tanks healing because it's so silly.

Sidenote: If all ressers die, I do actually kill myself too because I don't think it's fair they sit there for ages while I heal the remaining DPS with glint - but that's my opinion.

Old goring blade was a real one, I will always miss having two combo finishers please at least bring that back on Paladins if they're gonna keep us as a "slow tank"

[PercibelTheren]

what a dumb thing to say...

Is it? Shake has a relatively beefy shield, which makes it a really, really useful mit. It takes the pressure off healers in nasty situations and can help you pull through if a healer is dead during raidwides. That's its primary use in Extreme/Savage.

[PercibelTheren]

The problem is that tanks holding parties hostage should be a reportable offence and it's not. It's the human not the role that is choosing to make everyone else not play the game and i think that if people actually could get penalized via suspension for that then we'd see less of this. maybe just make a vote system that auto resets the fight and kicks the tank. This is a matter of griefing and ruining first time experiences. better yet if the tanks are alive and no ressers are alive make the boss auto wipe the party after a long cast. the cast time is to clutch a low health win like at 1-0.1% hp.

I wouldn't go that far but in principle, I agree. Nothing like doing content for the first time, the party dying when the boss is at 50% or more, then watching a tank solo the rest for 20 minutes with 8 vuln stacks because they're a tank and they can stand in pretty much any mechanics they want without much consequence. My "favourite" instance of this was during one of the Endwalker Normal raids where the tanks decided to try and solo, only to eat dirt at 2%, having wasted 15 minutes of everyone's time.

I'm reiterating my idea of the boss getting a stacking damage buff or enrage cast if over half the party is dead for X amount of time. Disable this when you unsync the fight, so old content can still be farmed without a full party. Boom, problem solved.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

The problem is that tanks holding parties hostage should be a reportable offence and it's not. It's the human not the role that is choosing to make everyone else not play the game and i think that if people actually could get penalized via suspension for that then we'd see less of this. maybe just make a vote system that auto resets the fight and kicks the tank. This is a matter of griefing and ruining first time experiences. better yet if the tanks are alive and no ressers are alive make the boss auto wipe the party after a long cast. the cast time is to clutch a low health win like at 1-0.1% hp.

If you wipe, then the party die to the same thing again then it's going to be faster for the tank to just finish the boss themselves instead of risk wiping again and wasting more time, but that rarely happens, and if it's sub 20% then it's faster typically for the tank to solo the boss than resetting and going again as sometimes the boss hits for so little it takes to long to actually reset.

And well just don't die then the tank "hold you hostage". It will boil down to difference of playstyle argument.

[Supersnow845]

If you wipe, then the party die to the same thing again then it's going to be faster for the tank to just finish the boss themselves instead of risk wiping again and wasting more time, but that rarely happens, and if it's sub 20% then it's faster typically for the tank to solo the boss than resetting and going again as sometimes the boss hits for so little it takes to long to actually reset.

And well just don't die then the tank "hold you hostage". It will boil down to difference of playstyle argument.

Who cares what’s most efficient, I want to play the game

The point is the tank shouldn’t unilaterally be allowed to deprive other players the ability to play because they have 600% EHP compared to everyone else

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Who cares what’s most efficient, I want to play the game

The point is the tank shouldn’t unilaterally be allowed to deprive other players the ability to play because they have 600% EHP compared to everyone else

Sorry but if people aren't learning from their mistakes and improving and expecting everyone to cater to them, so they can repeat the same mistakes, then the same argument I present to you of "I want to play the game" not be stuck on the one boss for the lock out wasting my time.

And this primarily happens in dungeons the lowest of the low denomination of content who cares if tanks can heal through these situations.

On the flipside, I have had many people cheer me on for soloing the end of dungeons or on occasion raids and trials, so feels like it's the loud minority complaining once again. I think for the most part people are glad to crack on with the rest of their roulettes for the day or whatever else they need to do.

[Carighan]

The thing is, I readily agree it's weird that tanks in their excessive sustain ability reduce the need for healers so much.

This ought to be fixed.

The fix however has to fix the actual issue that causes this, and that's the absolutely inane lack of any damage on both the tanks and the raidmembers. We get one big hit every 20-60 seconds, and that's it. And maybe tanks get the odd extra big hit every 2+ minutes. Done.

What should happen, instead:

* Bosses all keep autoattacking even as abilities go off.
* Autoattacks deal 20%-25% of a well geared tank's HP, and this is on top of ...
* All fights employ either one of these, or a combination of these mechanics:
** A constant raidwide DoT ticking for 5%-8% of everyone's HP every 3s.
** Every 3-4 seconds, 1-2 random bolts fly onto random raidmembers, dealing 25%-40% of their health in damage.
** Every 3-5 seconds, a random circle or line AoE is fired off (no telegraphs), causing 20%-25% damage to anybody hit.
** Every autoattack also deals reduced daamage in a 360° circle, including to the tanks on top of the autoattack.

Cause actual amounts of damage to the tanks! And the raid! All of a sudden all that tank sustain is sorely needed, and then some! Meaning the healers actually have to heal, too. With most~all of their GCDs, using their far bigger healing toolkits instead of their 2-3 button damage toolkits!

[AmiableApkallu]

** A constant raidwide DoT ticking for 5%-8% of everyone's HP every 3s.

For the love of Hydaelyn, this has got to be one of the least compelling ideas for improving healer gameplay.

What makes healing interesting is the choice to spend one's "turn" on "healing" or "damage". (FFXIV's base 2.5s GCD is basically turn-based gameplay, despite the outward appearances of real-time gameplay.)

A constant DoT on the entire party is, "lol, I guess I'll use one my 78 AoE heals once in a blue moon." It's the same reason why no one praises scripted raid-wides.

[aiqa]

The fix however has to fix the actual issue that causes this, and that's the absolutely inane lack of any damage on both the tanks and the raidmembers

You need to account for a wide variety of content. The intended party setup should work in both easier and extremely difficult content. And that is actually pretty easy, FF already does most of that. The trick is to keep the difference between generalized and specialized ability for each role high enough. DPS should do far higher damage than tank or healer, in any content. They mostly do, though in particular bard (and dancer to a lesser degree) struggle in some content. Tanks should have far higher effective health than healer or dps, in any content. And they do. And healers should have far higher healing than tanks or dps, in any content. And they don't. The best healing is WAR against groups of enemies. A healer can't compete with that.

When keeping those differences high enough, you can make the window where the trinity works quite wide. The smaller those differences get, the more you need to finetune content so that is just about still works works for the trinity. Finetuning content to work with the current broken version of FF14 trinity is not "the fix". That would be a never ending struggle.

[Carighan]

For the love of Hydaelyn, this has got to be one of the least compelling ideas for improving healer gameplay.

Haha, I readily agree. :')

That's why I just listed it as one of the list that ideally uses multiple in each encounter. But the specifics also hardly matter, so long as the damage is:

* Relentless
* Not entirely reliable (some~all of the damage is not uniformly applied to the raid)
* Focuses some of that extra damage onto the tanks.

And everything is a bit variable. There could easily be fights were it's just a ton of tank damage, versus others that are near-entirely raid damage, but non-uniform, etc. It's more about the idea that there's just too much damage incoming for the tanks to "not need" all their mitigation and the healers having time to spend many GCDs on damage instead of near-constant healing.

In particular a simple DoT might be useful for lower content to introduce healer-players to the idea of having to constantly feed "some" HP to their groups.