Accessibility options urgently in need of update

[Jonnywithoutah]

Adding my voice to this because it's important to my friends and has negatively impacted some of them. I remember when this was an issue in Mt. Gulg and they fixed that pretty quickly so I'm hoping for much the same here.

[Colt47]

Hmm... to sum this up...

Red on red is bad. This is not as bad as p3s with the orange saturation but the choice of the spread marker colors in combination with Rosebloom makes things hard to track without pre-positioning.

[Rainfallen]

I have minor blue-yellow colourblindness, and while it doesn't really affect my daily life, it definitely affects my gaming experiences and can be absolute hell at times for mechanics in fights. Even in NORMAL content if I'm being honest. My static on Thursday had to literally sit there for 20 minutes to help me figure out how to read escelon 1 in EX4 because it was the same issue I had in M4S being too much of the same identical colours. I don't have much issues with the red on red in that fight, but I know others that do have issues and I definitely think it's a bad look from SE for sure.

I suffer from severe chronic migraines as well, and have various disabilities that make processing fights an absolute nightmare in raids (I probably shouldn't raid, but I'm stubborn and want to prove old guildmates wrong from WoW who said I would never be able to do raids like this). The VFX in fights have been getting progressively WORSE ever since DT launched. LHWs was an overstim nightmare, if I hadn't been relying on callouts in M4S especially due to colours and bright flashes, I would have been 100% throwing up during prog and reclears. I was having similar issues in EX3 as well due to some of the colour and VFX decisions. Consistent migraines after progging a fight due to VFX and colour designs on fights really isn't a good things to have players have happen.

I had some knucklehead say that "visual clutter is what makes these fights hard, lol, removing that would make these fights too easy" and while I agree SOME clutter should be there for difficulties, being there in excess like it has been recently isn't how it should be. M3S towed the line of almost too much given that it was almost as problematic for me as P3 back in Pandae, but M3S had a decent enough balance with the fuses and the like. I loved M3S (looking forward to M7S too), but that orange on orange was a nightmare. Visual clutter with layering the same colours on each other, especially when you have disabled players like me and others here in these replies who love this game and hard content; really isn't how fights should be designed.

It very much feels like alienation to a disabled player base that adores this kind of content, and it hurts me to point that finger toward a game I adore so much. They either need to add a filter that dulls some VFX or improve their accessibility settings across the board to give a better experience for those of us who need that extra hand for playability.

[Kaurhz]

I had some knucklehead say that "visual clutter is what makes these fights hard, lol, removing that would make these fights too easy" and while I agree SOME clutter should be there for difficulties, being there in excess like it has been recently isn't how it should be. M3S towed the line of almost too much given that it was almost as problematic for me as P3 back in Pandae, but M3S had a decent enough balance with the fuses and the like. I loved M3S (looking forward to M7S too), but that orange on orange was a nightmare. Visual clutter with layering the same colours on each other, especially when you have disabled players like me and others here in these replies who love this game and hard content; really isn't how fights should be designed.

It very much feels like alienation to a disabled player base that adores this kind of content, and it hurts me to point that finger toward a game I adore so much. They either need to add a filter that dulls some VFX or improve their accessibility settings across the board to give a better experience for those of us who need that extra hand for playability.

Calling the person is a knucklehead is absolutely generous, at this point I wonder if there's anything upstairs except compressed air. Visual Clutter adding to difficulty is an innate design flaw, and you don't need to have raided to understand this fact, honestly... Just a shred of common sense, and at least some rudimentary understanding of design practices in any capacity.

Praising visual clutter for making these fights hard is like me saying, "Let's add an innate 600ms packet delay to processing and then design fights that require low latency and/or high reaction times.", it's utterly ridiculous that people out there are adhering to this level of logic. Like for both of these points, neither of them are innate difficulties, but are extrinsic difficulty factors that in a significant amount of cases will just serve to hamper or annoy the player rather than actually present a skill-oriented challenge. They have managed perfectly reasonably difficult fights in the past without completely doing a massacre on accessibility.

There is no circumstance where it is appropriate, frankly... If you want to add reasonable visual cues which conform to even the most rudimentary accessibility practice then go ahead. If you want to add some flare then go ahead, but keep it at a reasonable level. No need to try and flashbang the screen with unnecessary information... It's so bizarre that they managed to do memorable moments and challenging moments in the past without needing to do half the nonsense they do now.

Honestly... This situation has made me not even bother or have faith in the design processes, really.. I haven't raided since Eden's Verse, due to some of these abysmal design decisions, so it's utterly disappointing to see they are trying to double down on this design aspect after 4 years.

[Rainfallen]

Praising visual clutter for making these fights hard is like me saying, "Let's add an innate 600ms packet delay to processing and then design fights that require low latency and/or high reaction times.", it's utterly ridiculous that people out there are adhering to this level of logic. Like for both of these points, neither of them are innate difficulties, but are extrinsic difficulty factors that in a significant amount of cases will just serve to hamper or annoy the player rather than actually present a skill-oriented challenge. They have managed perfectly reasonably difficult fights in the past without completely doing a massacre on accessibility.

There is no circumstance where it is appropriate, frankly... If you want to add reasonable visual cues which conform to even the most rudimentary accessibility practice then go ahead. If you want to add some flare then go ahead, but keep it at a reasonable level. No need to try and flashbang the screen with unnecessary information... It's so bizarre that they managed to do memorable moments and challenging moments in the past without needing to do half the nonsense they do now.

Honestly... This situation has made me not even bother or have faith in the design processes, really.. I haven't raided since Eden's Verse, due to some of these abysmal design decisions, so it's utterly disappointing to see they are trying to double down on this design aspect after 4 years.

Honestly, fair on this re clutter. I wasn't necessarily praising per se, more so pointing out where I felt an upper ceiling was alright in my case. Though I do suppose that text is harder to parse out than a verbal conversation, where words can be put together a bit better, so my apologies on that there! Words are hard @_@

I do agree with you though, I hadn't even taken ping into account either so good call on that one quite honestly. I'm already seeing issues with my prog of M5S with the flashbang, it's causing a bsod effect on me making it hard to process information.

I'm okay, on my end, with some visual clutter, but it being an end-all-be-all is not great, no. That I agree on

[Kaurhz]

Honestly, fair on this re clutter. I wasn't necessarily praising per se, more so pointing out where I felt an upper ceiling was alright in my case. Though I do suppose that text is harder to parse out than a verbal conversation, where words can be put together a bit better, so my apologies on that there! Words are hard @_@

I do agree with you though, I hadn't even taken ping into account either so good call on that one quite honestly. I'm already seeing issues with my prog of M5S with the flashbang, it's causing a bsod effect on me making it hard to process information.

I'm okay, on my end, with some visual clutter, but it being an end-all-be-all is not great, no. That I agree on

Oh no, it wasn't in reference to you but the 'knuckle head', and I suppose it wasn't really praising, as such, but more just the fact they seem to deem it as a justifiable design decision. I just generally don't side well when it's justified by "But it adds difficulty", "But removing it makes it easier". Anything that adds extrinsic difficulty shouldn't be a factor... That said, apologies if it came across that I was ranting towards you, just at the 'knucklehead' - That's why I also dragged ping into it... Would the person, or other players condoning it still have the same attitude towards something like adding innate delays as a means of 'adding difficulty', if they do not, then I don't see why it should apply to color blindness in the first place.

I can understand when it comes to accessibility, especially around visual impairment, that you aren't going to appease everyone, but what they are doing is just ignoring even the most rudimentary accessibility things. It's sad to see, because in the past they could design engaging, fun and visually appealing encounters without trying to add visual flashbangs on the screen or feel like they are deliberately trying to cause sensory overload.. and it isn't about "Making it easier" (for those that have that line of thinking), it's more just not having visual clutter and reducing the superfluousness of it where needed. (Which they used to be perfectly capable of doing without trying to turn everything into a visual spectacle)

Back when I did raid (and I actually enjoyed it on its own), for Eden's Verse, I was doing it on console, and it didn't actually have native accessibility options at the time, not sure they still do?, by the time we were getting close to the 4th fight, I almost stepped out... The group I was playing with though, was happy to make any needed accommodations, like additional call outs. They have since asked me about 2-3 times if I would be willing to try raiding again, and it's always a flat nope... The encounters were fun and it was thrilling, but it isn't fun trying to fight an uphill battle with extrinsic difficulty, and it's not fun feeling like I am holding other people back due to an issue which isn't skill based.

[Daralii]

"Let's add an innate 600ms packet delay to processing and then design fights that require low latency and/or high reaction times."

Titan(Hard) was really where fight design peaked, but then they had to go and patch the deliberate 2000ms(or whatever) delay.

[kryptosona]

As someone who suffers from no visual impairments or disabilities, even I agree that some of the visual tells and color combinations have been too much lately. During Cruiserweight Match 1, there are times where I have to close my eyes because the lights from the AOEs flash too brightly.

Aesthetically, it's brilliant! As someone who did music in their youth and loves disco music, the entire fight is so well designed and such a fun time, but going from a dark arena to a bright flash of light is a little too much.

So, I am in agreement that not only does there need to be an update to the accessibility options, but also more consideration for people who do have visual impairments and disabilities.

[Daralii]

As someone who suffers from no visual impairments or disabilities, even I agree that some of the visual tells and color combinations have been too much lately. During Cruiserweight Match 1, there are times where I have to close my eyes because the lights from the AOEs flash too brightly.

Aesthetically, it's brilliant! As someone who did music in their youth and loves disco music, the entire fight is so well designed and such a fun time, but going from a dark arena to a bright flash of light is a little too much.

So, I am in agreement that not only does there need to be an update to the accessibility options, but also more consideration for people who do have visual impairments and disabilities.

There needs to be more consideration for sight and readability in general. They've largely abandoned the standardized and clear mechanic telegraphs and have fallen into a common MMO trap of overly intricate and/or vague telegraphs of a color that's the same color as the lighting and/or arena, and even if you have battle effects off, the abilities that are shown regardless(LB3s being the most common) can easily obstruct things.

[Rainfallen]

There needs to be more consideration for sight and readability in general. They've largely abandoned the standardized and clear mechanic telegraphs and have fallen into a common MMO trap of overly intricate and/or vague telegraphs of a color that's the same color as the lighting and/or arena, and even if you have battle effects off, the abilities that are shown regardless(LB3s being the most common) can easily obstruct things.

They REALLY have fallen into the modern MMO trap of hard = flashy and it's aggravating. I suffer from severe migraines, and i can only be grateful that I'm not epileptic or some of these fights would be literally impossible.

I do think some of the LB3s are silly to look at and enjoy some of them, and I admit, I verblind for shenanigans if I'm in a more gremlin mood. Only in normal content and with a majority of friends, however, never in serious content. But they can for sure be excessive and obstruct things, absolutely, and should have a toggle to have them display or not for folks. (LB effects being on even in gpose is aggravating NGL)