We need to do something about Tanks and Outgoing Damage from Bosses

[HyperiusUltima]

This has been talked to death, I'm sure, but I'm bringing it up again because when you're literally sitting there for a solid 30m straight watching M5 burn with two tanks sustaining each other as GNB/WAR, it is boring.

Mechanics are nice to do, but when you've messed up since it's your first time through and you're forced to watch it go all the way from 30% to 0%? It's bad. VERY BAD. Even if we can talk about "skill issues" the problem is still going to repeat itself: Tanks are in a position where they can duo any raid content on Normal mode that doesn't have harsh party LB requirements or mechanics that force the Tanks to do something.

I'd rather enjoy wiping than I do just having Tanks steamroll a fight, because that's part of learning. Some of these people have it their first time through and will never do it again because they get pushed through by Tanks, so in all honesty we need a fix in the next major balance patch to prevent this.

Either outgoing damage on Tanks HAS to go up(Bring back Crit Autos), or Tank Self-Healing has to go down. You can't have both.



Edit: Since I'm starting to see some people try to defend Tanks doing this, I'm going to pose a question for everyone who reads this thread.

How would you feel if you're forced to watch Tanks on their own, with no healers, duo a raid, unable to play yourself because you're dead on the ground?

[CVXIV]

That sounds obnoxious

[LinaAkayomi]

Just don't die, lmao

[CaptainLagbeard]

Bring back enrages to normal content.

[ForteNightshade]

If nothing else, they absolutely should make it so the bosses will enrage after a certain point to prevent this. Either make it generous enough to only be relative if tanks try to solo/duo through or somehow make it so that the boss can detect whether there's enough people alive to keep going. Another way around tanks pulling a stunt like this would sprinkling in a few mechanics where it deals typical damage if enough people are alive but becomes lethal if say, only 2-3 are still up.

[Titania40]

Bring back enrages to normal content.

You mean like the 2nd boss in the second Shadowbringers MSQ dungeon? Which WILL wipe the party instantly if there aren't enough players able to do the mechanic? And it only takes being down one player (or one person to screw up) for the mechanic to cause a wipe.

[Kaurhz]

You mean like the 2nd boss in the second Shadowbringers MSQ dungeon? Which WILL wipe the party instantly if there aren't enough players able to do the mechanic? And it only takes being down one player (or one person to screw up) for the mechanic to cause a wipe.

I mean nobody is asking for pinpoint precision with everyone needing to be alive to meet it, but something needs to be done to put a stopper on tanks playing god-mode in normal content. If 2 people can slowly whittle down a boss across 30 minutes then there is an issue... Whether that is excessive self-sustain or or bosses just dealing less damage than what a tank can sustain themselves on.

Also, assuming you're referring to that walk in the second dungeon, then it's incredibly lenient, and I mean incredibly.

[HyperiusUltima]

Just don't die, lmao

Ah yes. That atypical response. Maybe you shouldn't die on your first time through either playing everything perfectly? Not like we all make mistakes even when we're in High-end at some point.

[Titania40]

I mean nobody is asking for pinpoint precision with everyone needing to be alive to meet it, but something needs to be done to put a stopper on tanks playing god-mode in normal content. If 2 people can slowly whittle down a boss across 30 minutes then there is an issue... Whether that is excessive self-sustain or or bosses just dealing less damage than what a tank can sustain themselves on.

Also, assuming you're referring to that walk in the second dungeon, then it's incredibly lenient, and I mean incredibly.

The 2nd dungeon, with the butterflies everywhere? Second boss has a mechanic which if you don't have all 4 people doing the mechanic, the party WILL fail if the boss gets 4 stacks total. As I learned when a duty support NPC decided to not do that mechanic on the 2nd go round (they kept running from location to location instead of picking one). Another Duty Support run failed cause I was stuck in a cage when the mechanic spawned the third time, and didn't quite have enough time to break the cage and run to where I needed to be. Instant fail.

[HyperiusUltima]

I mean nobody is asking for pinpoint precision with everyone needing to be alive to meet it, but something needs to be done to put a stopper on tanks playing god-mode in normal content. If 2 people can slowly whittle down a boss across 30 minutes then there is an issue... Whether that is excessive self-sustain or or bosses just dealing less damage than what a tank can sustain themselves on.

Oddly enough M6 doesn't have this issue due to the constant Party Stack - and even if you try to invuln, even WAR can't have their CD up in time for the next one on top of Raid-wides and Autos. If anything I don't knock design including more party stacks, but then it becomes a body check at that point. Generally you want to not put too many body checks in a fight otherwise we wind up with P10S problems in EW.

As someone said above:

Bring back enrages to normal content.

We need this in normal raids badly. Enrage should be lenient enough to allow people to clear if they're 8-man, but no so bad as you need to push hard for damage and have a high-end rotation. They'll have to meet the average player's skill level for this. While someone can argue "but enrage causes casuals to wipe a lot and they can't do the content!", that's never been an issue when it was thrown into an Alliance Raid last expansion. Throw it into normal raids please and you'll probably manage to get some good things from even the normal crowd.