Unreal dps checks

[Ankhira]

People are really being gatekeepey over unreal out of all things. The content that rewards no gear or anything meaningful besides some mounts and minions.

The DPS check for Suzaku is definitely too much. We had 3 deaths yesterday and still saw enrage with pots. Not everyone is a perfect player who does ultimates or savages, Unreal is good content between normal content, extreme and savage, so why gatekeep that? Literally it's a good tool to get people into endgame - "Do better, Die less, do more dmg" stop being condescending.

I agree Byakko was too easy, I don't think anyone ever saw enrage on Byakko, but Suzaku simply has too much HP for the average player which unreal is marketed towards and as such is a problem. We're not talking about savage or ultimate, we're talking about unreal.

[CidHeiral]

People are really being gatekeepey over unreal out of all things. The content that rewards no gear or anything meaningful besides some mounts and minions.

The DPS check for Suzaku is definitely too much. We had 3 deaths yesterday and still saw enrage with pots. Not everyone is a perfect player who does ultimates or savages, Unreal is good content between normal content, extreme and savage, so why gatekeep that? Literally it's a good tool to get people into endgame - "Do better, Die less, do more dmg" stop being condescending.

How is it "gatekeepy" to point out you have to do a fight properly to win?

[Ankhira]

How is it "gatekeepy" to point out you have to do a fight properly to win?

When people point out valid issues with Unreal content, dismissing them with comments like "just get good" isn’t constructive. The DPS check for suzaku is clearly overtuned, no matter how you look at it. While I agree that content shouldn’t be a total faceroll, it also shouldn’t feel like extreme difficulty. The mechanics for Suzaku are straightforward, but that doesn’t help when the average group can’t afford more than three deaths before hitting enrage.

I’ve played every Unreal since Leviathan, and I’ve never had to use pots before. It’s a given that players need to handle the mechanics—that’s not what I’m talking about. What’s frustrating are the unhelpful comments like #usefood, #dobetter, and #dieless. They add nothing to the conversation. And sure, some people say “it’s endgame, it should be hard,” but for those who want challenging content, we already have Extreme, Savage, and Ultimate levels.

As someone who does Savage and Extreme content, I personally don’t have issues with Unreal. But I can see how casual players are struggling with it—and that’s a problem. Casual players already have limited content available to them, and now some people (not you specifically) are being elitist and gatekeeping over Unreal. It's just pathetic.

[AvoSturmfaust]

When people point out valid issues with Unreal content, dismissing them with comments like "just get good" isn’t constructive. The DPS check for suzaku is clearly overtuned, no matter how you look at it. While I agree that content shouldn’t be a total faceroll, it also shouldn’t feel like extreme difficulty. The mechanics for Suzaku are straightforward, but that doesn’t help when the average group can’t afford more than three deaths before hitting enrage.

I’ve played every Unreal since Leviathan, and I’ve never had to use pots before. It’s a given that players need to handle the mechanics—that’s not what I’m talking about. What’s frustrating are the unhelpful comments like #usefood, #dobetter, and #dieless. They add nothing to the conversation. And sure, some people say “it’s endgame, it should be hard,” but for those who want challenging content, we already have Extreme, Savage, and Ultimate levels.

As someone who does Savage and Extreme content, I personally don’t have issues with Unreal. But I can see how casual players are struggling with it—and that’s a problem. Casual players already have limited content available to them, and now some people (not you specifically) are being elitist and gatekeeping over Unreal. It's just pathetic.

Sorry to tell you but Unreal is EXTREME Content, and its fine to have a tighter dps check maybe people start then to understand that they can go forever without increasing the own performance.

[CidHeiral]

When people point out valid issues with Unreal content, dismissing them with comments like "just get good" isn’t constructive. The DPS check for suzaku is clearly overtuned, no matter how you look at it. While I agree that content shouldn’t be a total faceroll, it also shouldn’t feel like extreme difficulty. The mechanics for Suzaku are straightforward, but that doesn’t help when the average group can’t afford more than three deaths before hitting enrage.

I’ve played every Unreal since Leviathan, and I’ve never had to use pots before. It’s a given that players need to handle the mechanics—that’s not what I’m talking about. What’s frustrating are the unhelpful comments like #usefood, #dobetter, and #dieless. They add nothing to the conversation. And sure, some people say “it’s endgame, it should be hard,” but for those who want challenging content, we already have Extreme, Savage, and Ultimate levels.

I think part of the issue is there's a disconnect between what you want this content to be and what it actually is. Unreals are extreme content, they're literally extreme trials scaled up to max level. The previous unreals were pushovers because of the era they originated from, not because they were intentionally nerfed to make it casual content. I can empathize with people being lulled into a false sense of security by the previous fights being so easy but that's going to be less and less the case as unreals progress through each expansion, so people should approach them as they would any other extreme.

I do agree that "lol git gud" isn't helpful though. Fortunately there are a lot of helpful resources out there that people can look into if they're curious about getting into extremes or trying to figure out where they could improve to get that last little bit for the clear.

[PercibelTheren]

I think part of the issue is there's a disconnect between what you want this content to be and what it actually is. Unreals are extreme content, they're literally extreme trials scaled up to max level. The previous unreals were pushovers because of the era they originated from, not because they were intentionally nerfed to make it casual content. I can empathize with people being lulled into a false sense of security by the previous fights being so easy but that's going to be less and less the case as unreals progress through each expansion, so people should approach them as they would any other extreme.

I do agree that "lol git gud" isn't helpful though. Fortunately there are a lot of helpful resources out there that people can look into if they're curious about getting into extremes or trying to figure out where they could improve to get that last little bit for the clear.

Again, most Extremes aren't tuned this tightly. The mechanics in Suzaku are NOT hard (though the forced march orbs while the floor explodes can be annoying, but it's not hard). It's just an unusually tight DPS check. None of the Endwalker or Dawntrail EX fights I've seen have margins this tight. Most of the Savage fights I've seen don't, either, unless we're talking week 1 when everyone is barely geared.

[Voths]

Agreed that this is too tight on the DPS check. Byakko was my first venture into non normal content and I agree that it was very easy. I only ever saw enrage on him once, and that was with a mostly new group of players.

Suzaku is a different animal. People who were practicing on the level 70 synced minimum item level version have been reporting that version is much more forgiving on the DPS check. I don't think the boss needs to be as easy as Byakko, but a 5% reduction in HP would probably be sufficient. 10% would be generous.

My current best run last week was 4%. I had no deaths and only one vuln stack, but I can't speak for the rest of the group. No matter how sternly worded the party description is, you can't control the other 7 people and all it takes is one person with a bad attitude to ruin a group.

[Arohk]

Agreed that this is too tight on the DPS check. Byakko was my first venture into non normal content and I agree that it was very easy. I only ever saw enrage on him once, and that was with a mostly new group of players.

The last unreal bosses also had dps checks, wiping to enrage was very common on Sephirot for example, Byakko can't even be considered an Extreme trial really, for how easy that fight is, he does almost the same thing as in normal mode.

Suzaku isn't really difficult mechanic wise, it just seems to be punishing for doing mistakes, and two buff windows happen when you cant attck the boss.

Try to NOT use your 2 minutes cooldowns on pull, you will waste half of the buffs because the boss becomes untargetable.

[Voths]

The last unreal bosses also had dps checks, wiping to enrage was very common on Sephirot for example, Byakko can't even be considered an Extreme trial really, for how easy that fight is, he does almost the same thing as in normal mode.

Suzaku isn't really difficult mechanic wise, it just seems to be punishing for doing mistakes, and two buff windows happen when you cant attck the boss.

Try to NOT use your 2 minutes cooldowns on pull, you will waste half of the buffs because the boss becomes untargetable.

That's what I had been doing.

Hold my opener (I'm a warrior so it's a 1 minute cooldown) until she comes back. I save my potion until after the 10 stack buff. After that it's business as usual. I keep her pointed north as much as possible, even when it would be easier to dodge the exploding platforms by running around. I barely take any damage from the tankbuster, I make sure my cotank has Nascent Flash and Reprisal when its their turn to get hit, and when there's the stackup I make sure the raid has Shake it Off.

I don't know what else I can do other than hope for better RNG when I jump into party finder.

[nguyentri11]

Unreals or Extremes should have lenient DPS checks due to the average skill levels of players that do that content. Not to the point where the check might as well not exist so it doesn't matter how many deaths/damage downs you have. However, I think Suzaku Unreal is too strict with its DPS check where depending on your party you can probably only afford a couple of deaths or you enrage. With how easy it is to access Unreal, expecting perfect play or optimal button pressing from every random in your party is unrealistic. Telling an individual in this post how to optimize better isn't going to make the 7 other people in their parties optimize better. Or even if they told them when to opener or pot maybe only some of them will do it or they all do it but some of them don't do well in their rotation cause that's normally the level of skill of people who do this content. And with Extremes the DPS check gets even easier with higher item level gear but it's not a solution available to Unreals that sync you down. I can confidently say I'm a competent player(you're welcome to check my logs) and still run into the issue of Suzaku Unreal's strict check because I can't control the other 7 people. I could kick people who don't do well but I would rather not have to waste time with that. I think Suzaku Unreal's DPS check should be nerfed.