BLM Changes Are Fantastic. The timers were so annoying. Thanks FFXIV team ! :)

[Aysin]

Do you have an actual metric for that and please don't show fflogs

Why, may I ask is the log website not a valid resource since it is the only community driven source we actually have?

[Wayfinder3]

Do you have an actual metric and don’t show a completely valid metric

SMN is the least popular in savage, it’s the least popular in FRU, its second least popular in juneo (surprisingly PCT is least popular) and it’s the least popular in dungeons

Like do you have a metric that disproves FFlogs

FFlogs is skewed towards raiders and only accounts for people raiding who are more likely to play jobs that are better positoned, see 7.0-.7.1 PCT. It does not account for people who play the game but don't use a Parser and SE would obviously have more accurate data as to SMN's rate of play that extends beyond just savage. Another thing to consider is that we just got through a PCT dominant era and BLM just got a major rework in it's core gameplay loop and received a decent buff which will inflate the amount of people not playing the class. We need to wait for things to average out before making sweeping claims that SMN needs a adjustment because it's underplayed. Also Red Mage seeing more play than it in progression ALWAYS happens, no point in speculating why that is. This is all to say, that it's too early to say from a skewed sample size in the first place.

[Supersnow845]

FFlogs is skewed towards raiders and only accounts for people raiding who are more likely to play jobs that are better positoned, see 7.0-.7.1 PCT. It does not account for people who play the game but don't use a Parser and SE would obviously have more accurate data as to SMN's rate of play that extends beyond just savage. Another thing to consider is that we just got through a PCT dominant era and BLM just got a major rework in it's core gameplay loop and received a decent buff which will inflate the amount of people not playing the class. We need to wait for things to average out before making sweeping claims that SMN needs a adjustment because it's underplayed. Also Red Mage seeing more play than it in progression ALWAYS happens, no point in speculating why that is. This is all to say, that it's too early to say from a skewed sample size in the first place.

Then look at dungeons and alliance raids. Only one person in a party needs to parse something for all 8 players to show up and even private logs record jobs used. If you wanna say that savage is skewed by meta chasers then that’s totally fine but how do you describe dungeons and raids

And we are now 2 patches deep into SMN being garbage because of the balance of other jobs moving around it. Do you not see the basically problem of the fact that they are reworking jobs around popularity metrics but half the time the job itself isn’t responsible for why it’s either popular or unpopular. How long till everything settles and we decide whether SMN is fine?

[Aysin]

FFlogs is skewed towards raiders and only accounts for people raiding who are more likely to play jobs that are better positoned, see 7.0-.7.1 PCT. It does not account for people who play the game but don't use a Parser and SE would obviously have more accurate data as to SMN's rate of play that extends beyond just savage. Another thing to consider is that we just got through a PCT dominant era and BLM just got a major rework in it's core gameplay loop and received a decent buff which will inflate the amount of people not playing the class. We need to wait for things to average out before making sweeping claims that SMN needs a adjustment because it's underplayed. Also Red Mage seeing more play than it in progression ALWAYS happens, no point in speculating why that is. This is all to say, that it's too early to say from a skewed sample size in the first place.

I disagree with disqualifying Logs as a resource simply for it being a tool for savage raiders. SE made the BLM changes based on the supposed increased movement that occurs in savage, and if they balance and simplify jobs based on savage we should look to savage in terms of balance and feedback also. And in all regards up to 7.1 BLM was the least popular and SMN was second most popular. Once 7.1 hit BLM became 1st depending on the content (PCT dominates ultimate for example). But for alliance and savage BLM was played the most already, for trials it was last. SMN lingers anywhere between 2nd or last spot not once ever was it the top.

[Wayfinder3]

I disagree with disqualifying Logs as a resource simply for it being a tool for savage raiders. SE made the BLM changes based on the supposed increased movement that occurs in savage, and if they balance and simplify jobs based on savage we should look to savage in terms of balance and feedback also. And in all regards up to 7.1 BLM was the least popular and SMN was second most popular. Once 7.1 hit BLM became 1st depending on the content (PCT dominates ultimate for example). But for alliance and savage BLM was played the most already, for trials it was last. SMN lingers anywhere between 2nd or last spot not once ever was it the top.

The reason you disqualify it is because it ONLY accounts for that content when SE doesn't only consider that content when it comes to their plan for jobs. An Example like Verraise is a skill that is powerful in savage however SE also gets alot of utility by allowing to work in content like 24 mans, this is an example of them possibly considering a jobs core savage use in a different context and im sure they have their own metrics for what they want with player engagement thats different from looking at savage logs.

SE also might look at the information, get the same data but apply a different conclusion. People said PCT was ruining the game, SE saw it as a job being played heavily and didn't care what it did to their planned content for the first 2 major patches. Thats the point here. FFlogs doesn't matter because what you're all trying to gleam from the state of the game using the resources from that sight is not the same metric and conclusions SE is even considering. They look at the game as a whole and alot of people on the forums can be extremely out of touch when it comes to jobs and general game design. Prime example, SE wants jobs to be easier because more people will engage with them, the community hates jobs being too easy because they find it hard to engage with in depth. If see how these 2 idea don't mix but SE keeps making jobs more streamlined and doesn't adjust the classes to restore their more complex gameplan?

It's because they're getting the results they want from it.

[Supersnow845]

The reason you disqualify it is because it ONLY accounts for that content when SE doesn't only consider that content when it comes to their plan for jobs. An Example like Verraise is a skill that is powerful in savage however SE also gets alot of utility by allowing to work in content like 24 mans, this is an example of them possibly considering a jobs core savage use in a different context and im sure they have their own metrics for what they want with player engagement thats different from looking at savage logs.

SE also might look at the information, get the same data but apply a different conclusion. People said PCT was ruining the game, SE saw it as a job being played heavily and didn't care what it did to their planned content for the first 2 major patches. Thats the point here. FFlogs doesn't matter because what you're all trying to gleam from the state of the game using the resources from that sight is not the same metric and conclusions SE is even considering. They look at the game as a whole and alot of people on the forums can be extremely out of touch when it comes to jobs and general game design. Prime example, SE wants jobs to be easier because more people will engage with them, the community hates jobs being too easy because they find it hard to engage with in depth. If see how these 2 idea don't mix but SE keeps making jobs more streamlined and doesn't adjust the classes to restore their more complex gameplan?

It's because they're getting the results they want from it.

But square explicitly taxes RDM for ver-raise because of how it affects savage balance

They explicitly say they balance the jobs around savage

[MitsukiKimura]

FFlogs is skewed towards raiders and only accounts for people raiding who are more likely to play jobs that are better positoned, see 7.0-.7.1 PCT. It does not account for people who play the game but don't use a Parser and SE would obviously have more accurate data as to SMN's rate of play that extends beyond just savage. Another thing to consider is that we just got through a PCT dominant era and BLM just got a major rework in it's core gameplay loop and received a decent buff which will inflate the amount of people not playing the class. We need to wait for things to average out before making sweeping claims that SMN needs a adjustment because it's underplayed. Also Red Mage seeing more play than it in progression ALWAYS happens, no point in speculating why that is. This is all to say, that it's too early to say from a skewed sample size in the first place.

Wait for things to average out? Smn has been at the bottom of the barrel this entire expansion so far. All the people I knew who played it have swapped and forgot the job existed which is a damn shame. Its more a sad thing since there won't likely be any changes for it till 8.0

[Carighan]

Wait for things to average out? Smn has been at the bottom of the barrel this entire expansion so far. All the people I knew who played it have swapped and forgot the job existed which is a damn shame. Its more a sad thing since there won't likely be any changes for it till 8.0

This does not check out. Summoners are constantly in groups. Yes, not in high-end reclears. But I think that was the point of the person you replied to, that the devs can't just look at "Savage reclears" or "Ultimate progging" or even "Mentor roulette". The game is all of those parts.

[MitsukiKimura]

This does not check out. Summoners are constantly in groups. Yes, not in high-end reclears. But I think that was the point of the person you replied to, that the devs can't just look at "Savage reclears" or "Ultimate progging" or even "Mentor roulette". The game is all of those parts.

If you mean daily roulettes maybe I'd see one but I don't even consider that a factor. As far as savage raids, ultimates no. I will either see a Picto (95%) or a black mage. There are many factors to support the low numbers but that's for another discussion.

[Wayfinder3]

But square explicitly taxes RDM for ver-raise because of how it affects savage balance

They explicitly say they balance the jobs around savage

The jobs damage is balanced around that in general, even if savage didn't exist. They value RDM's core utility in content extending pass savage. We've also seem them balance around this as well in the past. Content like the baldesion arsenal prevents you from raising from normal means which lets you know they looked at the idea of raising in general for that content and nerfed it to preserve it's difficulty. We also see this in criterion where certain classes have more passive stats to make up for the weird compositions that come from only having a light party since the game prior to that content didn't tune the classes for it.