We need to do something about Tanks and Outgoing Damage from Bosses

[Reginald_Cain]

Not to .mention I've seen awful awful tanks not use their mitigation in high end content rather frequently and in those runs the healers must be awake or it's over. People who think tanks are op are straight up hyperbolic and ignorant of the problems plaguing healers design. Healing used to be fun when you had buttons to use outside healing the tank.

[Alice_Rivers]

Paragraph 1 (Guardian and ilvl).

Guardian is kinda like WAR when we're looking at tanks overstepping their bounds, of course you take no damage from an already non-existent tank buster when you use 40% mitigation PLUS a thousand (strength based) potency of shield that snapshots after that mitigation. Yeah I can see that "0" from here, it's insane, but it's also a good example of tank overreach and bad content design in tandem. If tank busters in dungeons were designed with tank mits in mind (or ANY mit for that matter) suddenly that 40% mit might still be overkill but at least you'd take some damage from them. It doesn't have to be 250k or more of damage but enough that if you just take it completely unmitigated then you're getting a heart attack at best, outright flattened at worst.

Then of course, there's ilvl which is kinda easy to fix, all they really have to do about that is reduce the range and balance for the mid-point. The content then becomes harder at MINE and isn't a faceroll when you're synced. There is also an argument to made for reining in the ever increasing defence stats on gear, obviously number must go up at some point because it's an MMO but they could easily adjust the formula in the back end to make that number less effective. In short, mitigation is a problem in principle because normal content does no damage, once you get into DT extremes and savages that mitigation starts to make more sense.

Paragraph 2 (Interplay and healing)

The most offensive part of PLD heals, I feel, is from the fact that they're all strength based. If, like ACN and SMN heal, they were mind based then they'd be a lot less offensive. Alternatively they could just have their potencies reined in a bit. I don't think PLD should be entirely removed of it's heals though due to traditional PLD job fantasy.

I want to feel like my cooldowns have actual impact because even if I don't press them I know healer kits are just also bloated with 1 million ogcd heals that never get used because tank mitigations/heals are just so strong.

+1 this.

Healing used to be fun when you had buttons to use outside healing the tank.

For me healing is fun, I just don't to do it because the would be recipient(s) of that healing do it all for me so all that's left is dps, which inherently sucks when I'm playing a "healer". If I want to dps, I play DPS.

[Rithy255]

Snip

I agree that Guardian sort of oversteps it's bounds, though I think all 40% Mitigations are pretty insane, GNB is pretty similar even if they actually take damage its mostly just the over health that goes away, it's also another healing ability, WAR/DRK I think adding a massive regen to warriors already overtuned heal kit was absurd. While DRK I was actually fine with a heal being tied to their kit. But I mostly agree that it's a problem with the content.

Problem is if you made stuff like holy sheltron regen and the magic combo scale off mind they'd be so worthless it shouldn't exist like current physick unless we upped Paladins actual mind stat, I think theirs a major problem with how PLD should fulfil a fantasy of both a healer and tank because Paladins generally have been designed to be a the middle of a tank/healer, but with how restricting FF14 design is you can never really have that, which is a shame because I generally like the magic knight protector/healer feel FF14 never offers anything in heal appeal outside of Mage like healers. It is what it is with how limiting the game is but I want Paladin to lean into that healing aspect but I also can see if it leans into it too much that we cause a issue with healer design. Then theirs warrior who outside visuals is even more of a paladin then a actual paladin with how strong its target heals are and its aoe heal having a regen which i find funny (but that's likely because warrior has way too much target healing, it doesn't even make any sense for its job identity).

I find Paladin most fun when I'm actually using my niche skills like cover and Clemency, new raids were actually fun because we had healers and dps struggle, so i was able to cover them with big AOE's coming out and being able to spot heal with clemency though instances like that are so rare and only last because no one knows where to stand, I would love to actually love if I was able to use those skills more and it not being a grief. It feels so fun for me keeping allies alive while also trying my best to still output damage, rather then following a set rotation where i never have to think about using clemency or anything gcd that isn't a outright damage gain.

[Alice_Rivers]

I agree that Guardian sort of oversteps it's bounds, though I think all 40% Mitigations are pretty insane, GNB is pretty similar even if they actually take damage its mostly just the over health that goes away, it's also another healing ability, WAR/DRK I think adding a massive regen to warriors already overtuned heal kit was absurd. While DRK I was actually fine with a heal being tied to their kit. But I mostly agree that it's a problem with the content.

Ironically (given how often GNB is complained about) I think it got the best 40% mit from a balance standpoint, taking the least from their healers, I think DRK's one would be better if instead of having Excog+ it had the typical WAR "Increased Healing Received" effect which would have excellent interplay with healers where that mit is actually justified - imagine where other tanks invuln cheese extreme mechanics DRK has the option to pop 40% mit, add TBN and let the healer push them through, that would be a really cool passage of play with a tidy dps reward for the DRK's TBN popping.

Snipped the PLD stuff because we're pretty much of one mind on that.