We need to do something about Tanks and Outgoing Damage from Bosses

[brinn12]

It's absurd to have this issue after 10 years. In fact, it's only getting worse, as tanks only gain more survivability with time, while SE never ramps up the difficulty of normal content.

[Supersnow845]

The tanks can survive the stacked stack markers, that’s the bonkers thing, you can survive them with your two minutes and your short CD. Stacked stack markers are basically just a punishment for everyone else. The tanks already do it on M6 simply because nothing else in casual content requires your mitigation, you can just hold them for stacked stack markers

If the only reason people play tanks is because they are immortal then that’s terrible design and shouldn’t be seen as a “well it’s immortality or nobody plays them”, and if we are so desperate to avoid a tank shortage then why aren’t we going crazy to avoid the current healer shortage, instead that’s just seen as a “well nothing we can do”

Other jobs shouldn’t be punished with being forced to watch the tanks solo the boss when situations aren’t necessarily their fault. Even if it is their fault such a bad healer that’s just rude and unfair especially if they are trying to learn. It’s slower, it’s not fun for anyone else and it’s only possible because tanks leverage their massive HP pools. Every time these solos happen the tanks are never actually “good” the games damage just doesn’t scale to how much damage a tank can take. That’s bad design on the tanks part

[Gyson]

This has been talked to death, I'm sure, but I'm bringing it up again because when you're literally sitting there for a solid 30m straight watching M5 burn with two tanks sustaining each other as GNB/WAR, it is boring.

Mechanics are nice to do, but when you've messed up since it's your first time through and you're forced to watch it go all the way from 30% to 0%? It's bad. VERY BAD. Even if we can talk about "skill issues" the problem is still going to repeat itself: Tanks are in a position where they can duo any raid content on Normal mode that doesn't have harsh party LB requirements or mechanics that force the Tanks to do something.

I'd rather enjoy wiping than I do just having Tanks steamroll a fight, because that's part of learning. Some of these people have it their first time through and will never do it again because they get pushed through by Tanks, so in all honesty we need a fix in the next major balance patch to prevent this.

Either outgoing damage on Tanks HAS to go up(Bring back Crit Autos), or Tank Self-Healing has to go down. You can't have both.



Edit: Since I'm starting to see some people try to defend Tanks doing this, I'm going to pose a question for everyone who reads this thread.

How would you feel if you're forced to watch Tanks on their own, with no healers, duo a raid, unable to play yourself because you're dead on the ground?

I don't know if this has been asked already, but before we suggest redesigning classes and encounters did you at least try saying something non-confrontational in party chat like "I'd like to take another stab at this fight and have more of a part in the victory, would you two mind resetting the fight for us so we can all give it another shot together?". I'd like to believe that at least one of the two survivors would have downed their character at that point, forcing the decision for the other.

[HyperiusUltima]

I don't know if this has been asked already, but before we suggest redesigning classes and encounters did you at least try saying something non-confrontational in party chat like "I'd like to take another stab at this fight and have more of a part in the victory, would you two mind resetting the fight for us so we can all give it another shot together?". I'd like to believe that at least one of the two survivors would have downed their character at that point, forcing the decision for the other.

I did ask. Neither of them did so when the boss was at 30%. Gave them a few minutes to wipe, they didn't. Instead, they persisted and it is as my post said since this was first clears for a ton of people. Nobody knew the fight except those who've already cleared ahead of others coming off of work.

[Asako]

You keep bringing this up. It happens once a blue moon.

You keep blaming Tanks, how about instead of blaming the Tanks you blame the playerbase? The game has been gutted because people can't even press their basic combos. The player base is a casual playerbase and the content has been nerfed into the ground because the majority of players that play 14 aren't good at video games, they are here for the story. Yoshi literally has been nerfing content since ARR because players simply aren't good enough to do the most basic of tasks. They couldn't even access HW expansion back in the day thanks to the original Steps of Faith.

Yoshi has seen where his bread is buttered and unfortunately for us it's the casual market. It's why we will never see bosses randomly critting come back, it's why we will never have enrages in normal mode again and it's why we will never see anything remotely difficult in this game for story mode content. It doesn't make sense for business, and this is a business. No one was playing Tanks until Stormblood, so they gutted all the Tanks to bare bones rotations. Healers could not heal and would constantly let Tanks die so they gave healing to the Tanks for a more balanced game play so losing 1 role doesn't completely wipe the raid and to entice new players to try Tank without Tank anxiety. Turns out it worked quite well that they kept at it and it seen a huge boost in popularity. Funny how that works, they look at stats and it gets the results they want so they keep at it. Why would they do something that actively hurts their bottom line?

You might want your jobs to play a certain way, look at BRD and MCH players, I'm sure they would like to go back to HW and SB when their jobs were relevant. Personally I'd love Monk to go back to it's old ways, but no one played it so it had to change, I don't like the change but it's there because it's good for the health of the game. It's a casual game. You say it's bad design on the Tanks part but it's quite the opposite, it's great design. It boosted the number of players playing Tank, with more Tanks queues pop faster, with faster queues you have a smoother gaming experience. If the trade off is once in a blue moon a Tank will solo a fight because everyone else died then I'll take it. I absolutely do not want to go back to 40 minute DPS queues. Do you remember them? It was absolutely miserable playing as a DPS back then.

[ForsakenRoe]

snip

Whole lot of words to say 'I didn't read anything that was posted'

You keep bringing this up. It happens once a blue moon.

Blue moons seem to be becoming a more and more regular occurence, then, because we keep hearing more and more stories like this, with greater frequency, ever since Endwalker. I suppose that expansion did involve us literally going to the moon, maybe there's a correlation

[Asako]

Whole lot of words to say 'I didn't read anything that was posted'

Blue moons seem to be becoming a more and more regular occurence, then, because we keep hearing more and more stories like this, with greater frequency, ever since Endwalker. I suppose that expansion did involve us literally going to the moon, maybe there's a correlation

The thing about stories is that all they are are stories. Absolutely exaggerated just like every other complaint on this forum.

Yeah I didn't read anything that's posted. To be honest can you blame me? A load of wet blankets throwing their toys out of the pram because Tanks are Tanky and can self sustain, exactly the thing that Tanks are meant to do. Shocking stuff.

Please Mr. Yoshi P. nerf Tanks. The game is really hard for me, I'm level 100 and I still cant do mechanics I learned 60 levels ago. Waaahh. Please Yoshi, it's the Tanks fault I can't press buttons. Tanks are also the reason I can't do anything in life but whine on a public forum. It's all the Tanks fault. HEALER STRIKE. Grow up.

[Gyson]

I did ask. Neither of them did so when the boss was at 30%. Gave them a few minutes to wipe, they didn't. Instead, they persisted and it is as my post said since this was first clears for a ton of people. Nobody knew the fight except those who've already cleared ahead of others coming off of work.

Was the request closer to my example, or was it more like "Oh god not again. Nerf tanks already. Someone wake me up when this ridiculous @#$%show is over", because that can have an impact on the success of the request.

If it was the former, then that does suck.

[Supersnow845]

If the only thing that mattered was engagement at the expense of fun then just make everyone have tank health bars

Can’t be afraid of making a mistake on a squishy healer/caster if you simply cannot die like a tank

[Asako]

If the only thing that mattered was engagement at the expense of fun then just make everyone have tank health bars

Can’t be afraid of making a mistake on a squishy healer/caster if you simply cannot die like a tank

That's right, Tanks have never died at all in this game. You heard it here first folks. Tanks are simply indestructable, All content has a 100% clear rate when you bring Tanks. You can't beat them, truly more words of wisdom by Snow once again. A man who wonders why his 'feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.' Who needs common sense when you can have an active imagination. Man I wish I played your version of FF14 where Tanks can't die. Would be such a funny game. Where did you download your version, I'd like to try it out. I've only got the official version you see. It's working quite well but not being able to die seems like it would be a great laugh to mess around on.

It's almost like having a game based on instanced content that took ages to pop for the majority of the playerbase was bad for business so they changed it to make it more accessable. Who would have guessed? It's a real shocker. What's next? Will you go on DPS strike because Tanks and healers can do almost as much damage as DPS players. That's not fair for DPS players right? It's funny because WHM can outdps DPS in ARR dungeons whilst still healing. Absolutely madness.....but shhuuuuusshhh we're only allowed to bad mouth tanks. Shuuussshhh.