i see they decided to delete black mage.

[Azurarok]

I dunno I associate true wizard with slow speed

[Aysin]

There is no reason for the extra long casting time. A cast time to everyone else is legitim (with exception of monk, i think nin and maybe Viper -not sure about him-, have all meele around the same attack speed, even all ranger have around the same speed, there is no reason to have a super slow caster -except as contrast for Super fast summoner-).

The slow speed is even frustating, when the enemie has a lot of attacks, and you are missing only one second for cast time, each time. Or, the enemies are dying so fast, that you are doing practicly nothing. The slow speed can even be boring to (i wavered between blm and drg, because blm was so slow, that i fallen "assleep" in some dungeons -but have times to keep track of the surrounding-, while the drg was one of the fastes meele and keep me busy.

Your arguments are contradictory, you say slow casts are a source of frustration in executing mechanics, and yet you are falling asleep in dungeons due to them. This isn't a slow cast time issue. It's your attention span, you're not being engaged meaningfully in a mechanical sense because dungeons don't really do that. Having faster casts do not change this outcome. A lot of the appeal to most Black mages was overcoming the limitation of the slow cast, the feeling of getting off big spells while seamlessly doing mechanics in an encounter was an incredibly rewarding part of the experience. Now we're just like every other caster, no stress, no engagement, no reward.

You for some reason are okay with classes being faster than normal, like the example of literally more than half the melee being faster than standard GCD, but you are not okay with slower than standard, which was a trait unique to BLM, who also had the option of melding speed to go fast. Taking away both choice and uniqueness from the job in order to fulfill your limited view on a class archetype that is completely unrelated to this game was incredibly ignorant. Also DRG is not a fast melee, it's uniquely one of the only ones that remains slow.

I do not want BLM to be the same as other casters, I liked it because of it's style, it's difference, it's complexity in a culmination of an encounter to overcome for a rewarding experience. Arguably the wizard archetype fits older BLM better because wizard casts, and uses their magic as tools to move around, instead of a wizard that just walks and throws spells around.

I hate to say it but if your ideal is a wizard with robe and hat, White Mage is there to cover your entire fantasy in the same style you want to play, with faster casts and everything. BLM with slower casts have always found a way to overcome excess movement such as TOP P6, Superchain, purgation, natural alignment, Manifold flames, fourfold flames etc. Just to name a few from most recent. We should have been left to enjoy the large difference to play style.

[VictorSpoils]

I weep for the BLMs and SAMs. They are the heart and soul of this game.

[Keichi]

I dont contradtict myself. The answer is situation based.
Some dungeon has very fast mechanics or adds, who die fast. Like Trojan. Where at last the first part of them are so fast down, that you doesnt came much to casting. And had later on parts with lot of aoe, that forced you to move (Trojan feeled like a anti blm dungeon).
Or currently the dungeon with "Alice rabbit hole". Where the second both force you to move around a lot. Even raids can give you this problems.

And than have whe the cases, where no mechanic force you to do much. Like the 90er dungeon with the octopus (or what ever the tentacle thing is). You can shoot most of the enemie, without beeing bothered. Because, the tank is taking all very good and dont have much of aoe. Or, you know the fights allready and know spots, where you can stand for a longer time, without beeing bothered with attacks.
All you has to do than is to stand still and to shoot. If you have than a slower casting time (maybe, because you choiced a crit build instead of a Quick build), can it become boring. Drg was a nice contrast, because you has allways something to press. Or has/can positionate to a new place, to hit more enemie. Or, if you are even faster (like reaper in his shroud mode) could you go so much into attack (because of the high speed or at last, high speed animation), that you forget your surrounding (a reason, why i choiced again reaper, i missed to many mechanics, because i only was focused in attack).

The new speed of blm let you cast very fast. But not to fast (except, if you are maybe still a speed build). Its even looks nice, to see all this many fire and explosion in rapid fire (a other reason to play blm, his fire moves looks very nice, i only wishes for a bit more variation, as only explosion).

And white mage doesnt fit. He is the priest. And is using healing (and stone+Wind in lower Level, the "boring" elements in contrast to fire, ice, lightning -the "cool" elements-).

[Aysin]

I get you now. So you want faster casts, with more frequency in buttons to press, that uses fire and lightning, who is not a healer, and has a position requirement and has big, but varied animations. To top it off they even sometimes hit faster.

MY BROTHER IN CHRIST YOU WANT RED MAGE!

[Keichi]

Nope, Red Mage is spellsword (ok, i had a phase where i thought to switch to him, but the gameplay doesnt feels as smooth as blm).

Dont understand, what is speaking again the faster speed. When he is only around same speed as the others now.

[GartredZW]

Disagree, there is a reason why you can not play any other class.
Reason: Blm is the only true wizard in the game and with that, practicly a core class.

Whe have multiple caster, that is correct. But only the blm fit the fantasy of the classical wizard (staff, element magic, robes and pointy hat).
Summoner is a sub class, who is specialized in familair.

you know you can put a wizard hat on any class you want, right? The hempen hat works on any class from level 1.

Even still, If it's a valid reason to make any class baby-stupid-easy just because it's a basic fantasy archetype, then where do we draw that line?
I don't like Dragoon's gameplay, but I really like using a spear. Should I whine on the forums until Square makes it something I'd enjoy more? I probably would be a bit happy to enjoy Dragoon for the twenty minutes I try it before I go back to playing something else.
Hell, I started as a Summoner in one of my early characters, but swapped to Black Mage because playing a Summoner felt like I was a three-year-old chewing on building blocks. I want that job to change to require a bit more than a single digit IQ to optimize.
What's the main stat on Caster DPS again? Intelligence. How about we try to fill that class fantasy.

[HikariKurosawa]

you know you can put a wizard hat on any class you want, right? The hempen hat works on any class from level 1.

Even still, If it's a valid reason to make any class baby-stupid-easy just because it's a basic fantasy archetype, then where do we draw that line?
I don't like Dragoon's gameplay, but I really like using a spear. Should I whine on the forums until Square makes it something I'd enjoy more? I probably would be a bit happy to enjoy Dragoon for the twenty minutes I try it before I go back to playing something else.
Hell, I started as a Summoner in one of my early characters, but swapped to Black Mage because playing a Summoner felt like I was a three-year-old chewing on building blocks. I want that job to change to require a bit more than a single digit IQ to optimize.
What's the main stat on Caster DPS again? Intelligence. How about we try to fill that class fantasy.

Why should one class be 10000x more complicated than any other class in the game? The appeal of black mage is that it is a pure magic caster with no frills. You just spam your strongest magics as much as you can.

Black mage at its core is about purity, not complexity. If any class should be overly complex and intellect based, it is scholar. You know? The one that is titled scholar? Black mage should be a dps version of white mage. Purity of magical expression, not complexity.

Talking about IQ in an mmo is always going to be a silly thing to begin with. You want to use brain cells? Do science or something, become a doctor, engage in literature. Video games, mmos especially, are not an intellectual activity. Like rofl, you play mmos and you're trying to flex IQ with it, do you ever take a step back and realize how inane this idea is?

[RirisuBlix]

Why should one class be 10000x more complicated than any other class in the game? The appeal of black mage is that it is a pure magic caster with no frills. You just spam your strongest magics as much as you can.

Black mage at its core is about purity, not complexity.

The job has not been this way since ARR. Since HW things like GCD management, MP ticks, standard and nonstandard rotations, recast timer manipulation, etc have been part of the job. It's also extremely silly to say this game is not supposed to be intellectually engaging when endgame content can take dozens or even hundreds of hours to clear and people develop diagrams and video/visual guides to learn the encounters. It's clearly not supposed to be a braindead experience at anything above the casual level. It's a game largely for nerds and while some players are happy with Press Button Equals Explosion, we have other jobs for that fantasy.

Balancing for casuals is tolerable to some degree. SE is a business and I would rather they keep the lights on because I love a lot about this game. However the players that play the longest, sub for the greatest amount of time, get optional items and extra retainers, promote the game online by word of mouth on social media... most of that is done by lifers and veterans, a good chunk of them being endgame raiders.

It's not entirely fair for them to obliterate the core of a job built up for basically 9 years just because they didn't meet some quota of players doing dungeons or something. If they cared to listen to the playerbase they'd have already known beforehand that these changes would make BLM mains riot. That the deletion of the Enochian timer got approved at all is baffling to me.

Anyone who defends this change in particular did not do high end content as BLM in 7.1, or not to a high level of execution at the very least. The job was largely fantastic and needed only tiny QoL. Without making reference to illegal tools (which I do not admit to using), I can vaguely claim that no party I joined ever struggled with enrages for any reason other than deaths, lol.

[HikariKurosawa]

The job has not been this way since ARR. Since HW things like GCD management, MP ticks, standard and nonstandard rotations, recast timer manipulation, etc have been part of the job. It's also extremely silly to say this game is not supposed to be intellectually engaging when endgame content can take dozens or even hundreds of hours to clear and people develop diagrams and video/visual guides to learn the encounters. It's clearly not supposed to be a braindead experience at anything above the casual level. It's a game largely for nerds and while some players are happy with Press Button Equals Explosion, we have other jobs for that fantasy.

Balancing for casuals is tolerable to some degree. SE is a business and I would rather they keep the lights on because I love a lot about this game. However the players that play the longest, sub for the greatest amount of time, get optional items and extra retainers, promote the game online by word of mouth on social media... most of that is done by lifers and veterans, a good chunk of them being endgame raiders.

It's not entirely fair for them to obliterate the core of a job built up for basically 9 years just because they didn't meet some quota of players doing dungeons or something. If they cared to listen to the playerbase they'd have already known beforehand that these changes would make BLM mains riot. That the deletion of the Enochian timer got approved at all is baffling to me.

Anyone who defends this change in particular did not do high end content as BLM in 7.1, or not to a high level of execution at the very least. The job was largely fantastic and needed only tiny QoL. Without making reference to illegal tools (which I do not admit to using), I can vaguely claim that no party I joined ever struggled with enrages for any reason other than deaths, lol.

"(which I do not admit to using)"

Just say you didn't use them if you didn't use them lol. What is this wording if not an indirect admission to using them?

The game's encounters were simpler in the past, engagement design has become more complicated and BLM is suffering in engagement as a result.

Nobody cares about BLM mains at the end of the day. Your word of mouth means nothing if when people try what you're enthusiastic about, they realize that it's something extremely fringe level interest and quit immediately. Player retention is what counts. Your individual subscriptions as BLM players are a drop in the ocean, no matter how long you are subbed for and how many extra features you purchase.

Very few people did high end content as BLM for a reason, and it's the same reason this "riot" means nothing. It's a minority of minorities.