Revelations from Patch 7.2: Seekers of Eternity

[GrizzlyTank]

MSQ

Is this yet another shard of Hermes we gotta put down?!?

10 char

[unlimitedBLACK]

Short version re: MSQ, Yoshida stated that 7.2 was going to more strongly plant the seeds for the major second story arc coming for FF14, and I think it delivered in that respect.

Here's what we know about Calyx:

1. He started Preservation. So this is the guy who drove everything about the process of creating the Endless and using the Traveler's Key to access the Source and other shards, and thus the person responsible for Krile's parents smuggling her and the Key to the Source, out of the reach of Preservation.

2. Calyx is also likely the reason that Robor and Alayla are dead. "But why are they in Living Memory?" I would imagine it's because Endless Sphene insisted, and Calyx didn't have a reason to prevent them from doing so, because he already HAD their memories. It's not like he could get more information out of them, and if he wanted to create simulants of them, that wouldn't impact their memories being in LM.

3. Calyx and Preservation know about the Sundered World, and Calyx seems to ONLY consider the Source and the rest of the shards as fuel for his ambition to evolve past death. A lot of folks are interpreting this as "Calyx must be an Ascian or being manipulated by the Ascians" but if we're to assume that ONLY the Ascians (and servants of Hydaelyn whom she specifically informed, like the Watchers) were privy to that knowledge, then this ONLY means that Calyx acquired that information from the Ascians. Nothing about that assertion assumes that the Ascians provided that information willingly; there's any number of possibilities as to how Calyx might have been able to get that info, especially since the Ascians have to eject their souls from the bodies they inhabit in order for their souls to escape to the Rift.

Put another way, imagine this scenario: say an Ascian is presiding over the process of pushing the Ninth to a Lightning Calamity. For whatever reason, the Ascians' efforts are stopped, and they escape to the Rift to rejoin the Convocation, never to return. Calyx, whether as part of stopping the Ascians or not, might have already had the methodology for copying someone's memories at that point, and was able to use it on one of the Ascians as they escaped... and having access to the memories of an Ascian, whether one of the Unsundered or otherwise, would have given him all the information he needed WITHOUT the Ascians knowing about it.

... there's definitely a lot more to say about this story so far, but I'm very interested to see how it proceeds from here.

[MicahZerrshia]

That is a bit of the point with him though. He looks generic because he was a person who was suck in bed for his whole life due to his condition so he never got to live a life that allowed him to make himself look unique. As a result he was always sick and physically he never properly developed as a result of it.

It's not just his genericness though. He is done in a completely different art style than most other things in the game. He literally looks like a stock manga character you can find a dozen of just by googling "Young Male Anime Scientist". I know XIV has anime influences since its Japanese and no one there for some reason seems to be able to move away from that one, single style of animation or set of tropes for very long, but just plopping down a stock fully anime character, which clashes with the rest of the art direstion, feels very jarring and extremely lazy in an expac that already feels very lazy. Then on top of that he is just another anime scientist trope on top of it. I have watched enough anime in my life that I could likely write out his whole plot and they will follow it to the T.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

I'm on the side that.....

Sphene injuries was never that serious and a certain someone faked her death so they can go around her to approve the creation and use of regulators.

Of course they needed to replace her so they kept her alive all this time in cryostasis just to use her memories to make fake Sphenes just incase the current fake Sphene needed to be repaired or replaced using the real Sphene's memories.

The comment about how her death was common knowledge and announced publicly suggests that her death was a planned fake news. Not to mention Calyx confirming he always planned for Endless Sphene to go insane and fail in her plans after she was created from the beginning. This all points to Calyx being behind everything from the beginning some how though it feels a bit too predictable.

Good arguments, let me add some things

Let's not forget that Human Sphene got the crown containing all her Endless version's memory. If she put that on her head, the consequences for her may be huge for her mental state. Sphene seems to really care about her people, if she see that her alternate version tried to end a whole planet just to keep up the Living Memory, she would be demolished, or even more resolved to stop Calyx. who knows ?

Also, Calyx being behind everything since the beginning could actually make sense. He seems to be very calculative and intelligent, getting data on his opponent and stuff. I think he used Zoraal Ja in that way too. Zoraal Ja, ALONE, was able to become a sovereign by his strenght... Big doubt here. I think all of this was staged by Calyx. Cause let be honest. Zoraal Ja is far weaker than Zenos, yet Zenos was never able to conquer a city on his own (But he probably could if he really wanted it). It requires an army to do that. Seeing that Zoraal Ja is unable to fulfill Calyx wish on his own, he let Zoraal Ja run his war. First, the Key was in his possession and he could manipulate Endless Sphene to convince him on what to do with it, but we snatched it hindering his plan after killing Endless Sphene. That wasn't probably his intention, he had no idea we were this strong at all, far Superior to Zoraal Ja. So if the Lightning bolt we took on the cutscene was meaning to kill Zoraal Ja but took us on our knee and barely damaging us, I guess he severely underestimated us or had no data (Which is weird, considering we did destroy the Living Memory, so he should have seen us, even against Endless Sphene.

If Calyx had no idea of our strenght after Endless Sphene died, then I have no idea how to explain this.

[Rosenstrauch]

Arcadion spoilers ahead. tl;dr: I liked almost all of it, but have an issue that's left me dreading the final act.

So, first thing's first. Yaana and Neyuni are very much the MVPs of this storyline. I love this proactive, bighearted woman and her clever, resourceful little sister. I'm also pretty happy to see Honey B. Lovely again. It would've been easy to just say they tested her offscreen, but giving her a minor role in this second act was very nice.

Brute Bomber being a cat lover and a bit of a softie was a nice addition to his character. As was his being a company man at heart, and the tragedy that ensued from his loyalty to the President was heart-wrenching. The themes of youth exploitation in the entertainment industry are very strong here, and as much as it sucks to lose a good character to death, it was refreshing to see they didn't pull any punches with him. Having said that, I really wouldn't mind a third act twist revealing he wasn't dead—so long as it's not his corpse being used for a third fight, I mean. Which isn't impossible, thanks to what we've learned in Origenics.

Speaking of which, Origenics research being the source of Neyuni's miracle cure, or at least a big breadcumb to it, was a really good idea. I would've thrown in something about Yuweyawata Field Station, but that'd require MSQ Progression to be mandatory, which they are notably averse to.

Dancing Green and Sugar Riot were both fun fights—really, all the fights were fun—and I wasn't terribly surprised by the resolution of their characters. I wasn't expecting anyone except Yaana and Eutrope to remain active members of the cast, so I'm not disappointed that they got in and out as relatively flat, but interesting and likeable personalities.

Circling back to the returning characters, like I said, I felt that Honey B. Lovely and Brute Bomber were handled very well this time around, and Yaana soared! But Eutrope...

I should backspace a bit, and talk about Howling Blade/Retsarra. His introduction was well done. His affable demeanor, detachment from his personal relationships, and commitment to fighting even as it's killing him made for a pretty good final boss for the second act. That his character development came at the cost of his friend's life sucks, of course. But like I said, I'm glad they didn't pull any punches there.

Sorry, I lied a bit. His character development didn't come from that. It came from Eutrope.

So, here's the thing. I don't terribly mind that he's her ex boyfriend. It's annoying that with the sole exception of a gag duo from back in A Realm Reborn, every romantic couple in this game is strictly heteronormative—front facing, active men with supportive women standing behind them. The couples where this dynamic is reversed are notedly platonic, and any other dynamic seems verboten. But simply having an ex boyfriend, and possibly even breaking up with him over his aforementioned flaws, doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is that this relationship has been pushed to the forefront of her characterization, in a way that eclipses the rest of her motivation. That motivation is still there, thankfully. She still wants to get her life back. She still wants to protect her sisters. She still wants revenge on the President, and still wants to save the other fighters from psychonekrosis. But all of that feels like it's pushed aside the moment Yaana snaps at Retsarra. Added to this is the fact that Eutrope spends the final part of this act unconscious and bedridden, before the plot reveals she's also been kidnapped. So now she's Snow White—a damsel in distress and a coma, waiting for her Prince Charming.

And I really, really hate that. It feels like both Brute Bomber and Eutrope were done dirty in execution, and I've come to resent Retsarra a little because of it. I hope they don't commit to putting her back into a relationship with him, and I especially hope she gets her agency back before the final act is concluded eight months from now.

Having said all that, I'm thankful I went back over my screenshots, because stewing in my initial reaction took that problem and inflated it to an obscene degree. I'd allowed myself to overlook the preservation of Eutrope's complex motivations because the trite "She's doing it for Retsarra!" explanation was highlighted twice by Yaana, the second time even being the final word. As such, that initial reaction was quite a lot worse—it felt as if they'd thrown away the heroic desperation of Give it All in favor of "I'll murder the WoL and die so my man can spend a few more years Fight Clubbing", which would've been straight up character assassination.

Also, lastly: You will note that not once have I referred to Brute Bomber by his real name. To be frank, it's entirely because I'm left scratching my head about it. "Hector" is an Anglican/Greek name, which fits neither the naming conventions of the Alexandrians nor any Turali culture. I looked up "Hectorine" to see if it was some obscure mineral or whatever, but all I could find was a Californian "soft rock" group.

EDIT: While brainstorming fic ideas, I came to the realization that I really, really need the lyrics to Cruiserweight Match 3. Spoiler-thoughts below:

Why did Brute Bomber use multiple feral souls, but not his old reliable Bomb King? Why'd he pick a location that's not only outside the Arcadion, but on another level of Everkeep entirely? And why was one of his cats there?

Feeling like a bit of a conspiracy git here, but I'm starting to get the feeling his fight wasn't out of loyalty to the President. I think he was trying to prove something the only way he knew how—even if it meant dying. Furthermore, I think the reason Retsarra was able to show up in such a timely fashion is because he came with his friend—and Bomber had brought his cats along.

[mallleable]

Some thoughts about the next Arcadion tier

I think a really great gut-punch if they brought back Brute Bomber again as M11 in the heavyweight tier, but go for an Undertaker direction: The Brute Entomber, the soulless, cybernetically enhanced corpse of the Brute Bomber who does the President's bidding.

[Iscah]

Playing Stray just before coming back to Solution Nine resulted in some weird readjustment – from a general "this looks familiar but not quite right" feeling, particularly at the construction site, to a misplaced twitch of excitement that I'd finally found the last vending machine I needed for collectibles...

But anyway. Arcadion.

Eutrope attacking us again seemed like the flimsiest of excuses, especially once Yaana said she was going to transform too.

It's feeling way too simple that Neyuni just turned out to be a hacker genius with all the answers and everyone else is immediately believing us – primary plot people aside, of course.

And what's the president's plan if it suits him to let us gain access to the soul repository, or at least let us continue in the belief we'll gain access?

The whole thing is sounding like we might be sailing into Werlyt round 2 with a bunch of orphans feeling forced to fight in a way that's going to kill them. Hopefully it's not going to be so miserable as that was.

I forgot to turn voices on for the first couple of fights, and ended up turning it back off in the final. That voice doesn't suit Retsarra's appearance at all.

[Wyssahtyn]

you didn't hear this from me but he actually does use a child model, so i'd say his face is pretty appropriate

xiv's typical child models are just downsized male midlander bodies from what i recall, so unless they made a whole new model for him, they did in fact just paste a childlike head onto an adult body

[Tehmon]

Arcadion spoilers ahead. tl;dr: I liked almost all of it, but have an issue that's left me dreading the final act.

I am in agreement with your takes!

Eutrope had an edge and mystery to her that made her compelling, and it made me ponder about the lengths she will go to get our soul, but all of it kind of came crashing down with the simple revelation that she is just trying to save the man that she loves/loved. And now we have a potential cure so she has nothing left except to be the love interest and damsel in distress. That's a rough turnaround for a character that felt quite strong.

Their relationship also does kind of overshadow the entire intriguing elements and themes that were brought up by Brute Bomber's death. Like... what are the chances his death actually matters now that Retserra can rid of his guilty conscience of knowingly sending his best friend to his death by being the knight in shining armor and rescuing his damsel in distress and fixing his relationship with Eutrope. They already had some good plot threads building up, but the whole relationship and kidnapping just kind of derailed everything and I can't help but feel a bit jilted and bitter about it lmao.

I'm also somewhat shocked that... we are still in Solution 9, with people wearing their regulators, and the culture hasn't really changed around death and dying. So why does Brute Bomber's death feel so.. underwhelming in terms of how people react to it? Witnessing death and remembering it is supposed to be foreign to these people, so why is the reaction to such a morbid death so... whatever? I mean we do get a few tears from Retsarra, but only really when pushed to it. It's just another thing that the whole relationship between Retsarra and Eutrope kind of overshadows, as more time should've been instead put into dissecting this death instead of establishing a relationship drama between two characters.

I'm all for Brute Bomber not being dead if his death doesn't get the time and respect it deserves, even though FFXIV gets clowned for never truly killing people. I was reading comments from Japanese users, and some seem pretty bothered by the death as well and others suspect he will be back next tier.

[Cleretic]

Arcadion feelings: It might be getting excited about an early idea of where this story was going, it might be really disliking one of the actual fights, but I'm a lot cooler on this one than others.

I really thought we were going in a direction of focus on different forms of art, and specifically outsider/underclass art; the specific choices of disco and graffiti felt like a very deliberate evocation that we were gonna be looking at the sorts of art that marginalized people create and uplift, and I was really excited about that, especially because the fact that we're fighting a dancer and an artist is actually reflected in the kinds of difficulty their fights have! I wanted to see more fo that, and my reflexive thought, knowing what Howling Blade's boss fight looked like from the trailers, was 'okay I bet this guy's a mechanic, he's building a hot rod in his garage, so his fight's gonna be mechanically complicated'.

And... uhm, no. This is the point where the idea we might have fighters that reflect elements of life outside the ring is deliberately completely killed. And I respect the idea behind that, even to the point where I predicted we'd see someone die in the ring to explore the impact of that, but... it gets a lot less conceptually exciting. It's not really helped out by the fact I find the Brute Abombinator a really frustrating fight, hard in a lot unfun ways.

And Howling Blade is a nothing fight, that as a Gundam fan I'm insulted to see people call a Gundam; this man is a poser, there's not a Minovsky particle in his body. If anything he resembles Metal Gear cyborgs, and you could really carry that comparison somewhere... if the background and music were evoking that in any way. (Also I'm pretty sure his pillars mechanic is lying about its hit boxes but that's beside the point.) And it's not like he's a tremendously exciting character outside of it, either; unfortunately, the consequences of going 'beyond this point everyone is just a fighter with no outside life' is that these characters don't have lives and aren't interesting. Howling Blade actually comes off worse out of the new focus of 'it turns out they're just in love' than Eutrope, because at least Eutrope's overall internal thoughts are more complicated.

Still, I did like us fighting a promo shoot with our own promo shoot, I do think it's interesting that the President has had an effective treatment for psychonekrosis this whole time and hasn't been using it... and I wonder if, maybe, the fact we've got a bunch of local celebrities and artists in our corner now is gonna be a factor in the final stretch. After all, at the end of the day, we're fighting an entertainment company; what could be a better weapon in that fight than having better entertainment?

Aaaaand the Cornservant. I didn't expect a five minute quest to force me to do this much back-research.

So, the deathservant is a tecpatl; the Aztec human sacrificial blade. The Aztecs considered the tecpatl a big part of their culture and art, so it's not completely out of nowhere... nor is anthropomorphizing one, because the Aztecs had a big thing of adorning their tecpatls with faces. The Cornservant's comment that human sacrifices were replaced with corn sacrifices is... close enough to a real life parallel; there are corn sacrifices, to the best of my research it's not that they replaced human sacrifices so much as they were just a different thing that developed over time.

I think it's actually really smart that, if they're gonna evoke this part of pre-colonization American history, they specifically made the decision that Tural stopped this a long time ago, and voluntarily. Rather than tar Tural for having done this in the past, it actually makes them look better for having chosen to stop, when the game's been full of groups that have been willing to take out that knife much more recently, and had to be stopped far more forcefully.