The future of job design

[Absurdity]

It's also just bad design for the DDR fights to all insist on mechanics being body checks. At some point it becomes more frustrating than rewarding.

It's another reason why putting all difficulty into fight mechanics is a double edged sword.
It's mostly fine if you're playing in a static with people of all roughly equal skill levels and learning speed, but how many of those really are there?

If you play with friends, or god forbid prog in party finder, some of the players may be a bit slower on mechanics, but your success nowadays relies entirely on people's ability to execute those.
So when you're stuck on a body check mechanic for hours or even days on end it becomes incredibly frustrating, for both you and the player failing them despite their best efforts.

[Valence]

It's another reason why putting all difficulty into fight mechanics is a double edged sword.
It's mostly fine if you're playing in a static with people of all roughly equal skill levels and learning speed, but how many of those really are there?

If you play with friends, or god forbid prog in party finder, some of the players may be a bit slower on mechanics, but your success nowadays relies entirely on people's ability to execute those.
So when you're stuck on a body check mechanic for hours or even days on end it becomes incredibly frustrating, for both you and the player failing them despite their best efforts.

It's still a problem in statics that tends to emerge even in savage, but especially in ultimates that truly do test the speed at which everybody learns. I've been into many of those statics and every time it's turned into drama about one or another player for dragging on.
And it's not even about a binary metric of some players being worse at everything than others, it's also tied to how everyone responds to specific things, for instance I was bored out of my mind progging P12S pangenesis/caloric1 because I'm an old schooler, but never managed to be comfortable on superchain theory (especially SC2) and griefed my static more often than not.

For this it's hard to do anything, especially when the mechanics rely a lot on individual responsibility and reaction/resolution and you can't just follow doritos or clear call outs. If someone fails and keeps failing, it's hard.

[LoganMccree]

It's still a problem in statics that tends to emerge even in savage, but especially in ultimates that truly do test the speed at which everybody learns. I've been into many of those statics and every time it's turned into drama about one or another player for dragging on.
And it's not even about a binary metric of some players being worse at everything than others, it's also tied to how everyone responds to specific things, for instance I was bored out of my mind progging P12S pangenesis/caloric1 because I'm an old schooler, but never managed to be comfortable on superchain theory (especially SC2) and griefed my static more often than not.

For this it's hard to do anything, especially when the mechanics rely a lot on individual responsibility and reaction/resolution and you can't just follow doritos or clear call outs. If someone fails and keeps failing, it's hard.

Honestly body checks just worn me out eventually. I actually seriously quit the game because of body checks. It made raiding frustrating whenever there's a skill gap. It also got really annoying to have to memorize six different raidplans and memorize which exact spot to go to for the combination of debuffs you get for one mechanic. I don't know how they managed to turn raiding into doing boring homework, but they have.

I don't just blame the game devs though. It's also the community. Raiding is no longer intuitive and people don't like adjusting. People want to treat it as homework and unironically praise the suffocating JP macro culture. Seriously, in SB there aren't that many mechanics where you have to memorize what the team agreed to do for each mechanic and where to go for what. Raiding was far more intuitive. Now because of the community and the way fights are designed, if you just yolo a simple spread mechanic everyone will freak out and have a meltdown.

Maybe it's an Asian thing, like seriously no offense but I see people unironically describing weeklies as "homework" in Lost Ark, another Asian MMO, and I'm like "how is that a good thing??"

[SkankyRoe]

It's another reason why putting all difficulty into fight mechanics is a double edged sword.
It's mostly fine if you're playing in a static with people of all roughly equal skill levels and learning speed, but how many of those really are there?

If you play with friends, or god forbid prog in party finder, some of the players may be a bit slower on mechanics, but your success nowadays relies entirely on people's ability to execute those.
So when you're stuck on a body check mechanic for hours or even days on end it becomes incredibly frustrating, for both you and the player failing them despite their best efforts.

Don't forget latency issues that can pop up at any moment without warning and the player has absolutely no control over it. I've had entire raid sessions with my static that saw very little progress due to someone getting lag spikes throughout.

[Azurarok]

maybe we need fights like Steps of Faith again

[Absurdity]

maybe we need fights like Steps of Faith again

Steps of Faith was bad, but you could at least see the idea behind it.

I would gladly take a jank fight that at least tries to do something creative over "corridor-2pack-pull-simulator 200" or "Hope you like half-room cleaves nr. 35".

Hell, I'll even give them praise right here. The teacup mechanic on the 2nd boss in Strayborough is quite nice, can't remember that being used anywhere else off the top of my head. Sadly that's the rare exception.

[AllenThyl]

The allegory of the cave.

Usually employed these days by people who think enlightenment is whatever comes out of someone's mouth during a psychedelic trip, instead of being sober, hard work all life. Normal essentialism, really. It was a simple question, wasn't it? And yet, we get the same shifty and dodging rhetoric that we also get in discussion about "midcore" content.

Hell, I'll even give them praise right here. The teacup mechanic on the 2nd boss in Strayborough is quite nice, can't remember that being used anywhere else off the top of my head. Sadly that's the rare exception.

It's a growing AoE that inflicts a dot. The ice attack from the hydra in World of Darkness does exactly that. So do the poison puddles in p5.

[Absurdity]

It's a growing AoE that inflicts a dot. The ice attack from the hydra in World of Darkness does exactly that. So do the poison puddles in p5.

I'm talking about the spinning cups that you need to follow to know where the AoE is going to be, not the spilled tea on the ground.

[Rithy255]

The future =
(Yes It's nothing)

I don't think we have much of a future as we keep following the pasts of the shadowbringers design and doubling down on it 8.0 shows no reason that it wont follow after they said they wouldn't make jobs easier but the recent BLM changes, DRG, ect say otherwise.

I hope I'm wrong though.

[ONLYSTEEL]

maybe we need fights like Steps of Faith again

I don't think OG Steps of Faith was that interesting. It was just a good start for a fledgling MMO.

It's the fact that instead of expanding on and building on what they've made, rudimentary and unpolished as they were, they've decided to just completely gut every idea that isn't modern DDR.