The 7.2 Frontline changes are EXCELLENT

[gidsonBrand]

No, there are three posts on the forums decrying these changes or a lack of nerfs. That you yourself have posted on.

Seriously, yall need some more positivity when it comes to PvP. It's literally the best part of the game right now, outside of Savage, but you wouldn't know that if you read the forums.
Like, I'm in the camp that FFXIV generally has an overly positive community and we could use more pain points. But come on, are you really trying to roast me for saying I'm excited to play the game?

[Mawlzy]

No, there are three posts on the forums decrying these changes or a lack of nerfs. That you yourself have posted on.

Seriously, yall need some more positivity when it comes to PvP. It's literally the best part of the game right now, outside of Savage, but you wouldn't know that if you read the forums.
Like, I'm in the camp that FFXIV generally has an overly positive community and we could use more pain points. But come on, are you really trying to roast me for saying I'm excited to play the game?

I suspect our views of what constitute FL improvements are bordering on mutually exclusive, hence it's inevitable that when you're excited I'm likely to be worried.

Based on your posts, my impression is you're more interested in a conventional MOBA than the multi-objectives of FL, hence when FL changes seem likely to emphasize snowballing aggression, you'll enjoy them more than me.

But I'm happy for you that you're excited to play the game.

[Mawlzy]

One technical point. Once again, the devs have committed the cardinal sin of making two potentially significant changes at once. This is really frustrating when multiple posters here pointed this out after the last fiasco.

Specifically, making a massive change to BH while simultaneously adding a potentially major change with duty actions is... Mind-numbing. Irrespective of whether matches become better or worse, it will be difficult to untangle the reason why.

[Loggos]

8v8v8 is a mode I really long for. This "sweet spot" is really missing between CC and super large-scale matches and I do agree with the point that PvP classes are heavily designed around CC, a mode with small teams with lots of individual responsibility, so I think many current jobs would be very suited for 8v8v8 team fights. You'd have the thrill of larger battles against two teams but more of an individual "burden" (in a good way). Because of the latter you could probably get more complex gameplay out of your class than "group enemies, delete enemies with big bursts" (I'm oversimplifying of course, I know FL, esp. with premades and coordinated teams, require lots of strategy but on the flip side when there are a lot of randos who don't take the game seriously it's also very, very easy to play like garbage without anybody being able to pin it on you because you get lost in the crowd - so matches can very quickly turn into simple "go in, go boom").

[Valence]

Some role actions like fetterward sound like a godsent especially for melees, and reward skill play. Casuals are probably not going to take advantage of it because they couldn't back in ShB when fetterward was a thing already, so this will probably cement good melee play into the hands of good pvp players more than anything.
I forgot what rampage or dervish do (but I do remember feeling underwhelmed by dervish comparatively), I have seen phantom dart peeking in which I think is going to destroy melees when used well by casters, depending of course of its vulnerability potency (it was 20% back in Feast).
I do not understand the design idea behind role actions like comet. Are we trying to blanket the field with nukes? People are just going to spamm that crap and I don't even want to imagine what it's gonna result in with pull-ins, but we'll have to see I guess. I just don't think the role actions is the place to go for offensive damage AoE actions...

So then, what? We're just not supposed to encourage offense whatsoever?

Right now, the only way to consistently defeat another team is to go full 24v24, because you just NEED that much damage and sustain. No other strat is viable. If you want the zerging to stop and change into more 8v8 skirmishes followed by the occasional bloodbath, then 4-8 people need to have enough firepower to defeat an entire alliance.

These changes to battle high & good offensive role actions are a step towards that. Coordinate with your team, find your role in the stack. And if an army comes at you in a stupid zerg way, bait it out and fire the artillery on them. Pull a 300 and hold your choke.

There will never been any skirmishes like back in HW/SB as long as mount speed remains increased and map design and objectives don't push more seriously for team splitting. And if this ever happens, then the innate DRs will not be needed anymore or will be able to be dialed down. We never had them until half ShB precisely because of this meta shift (+ the lower damage output overall) and SE had to find a solution in a hurry (and also got rid of the 8v8v8 in the process, because of course 50% DR would make it impossible to kill anyone in that format).

Ad for the zerg tactics or not, if we go back to the premade meta where one premade can just play the game for the whole team? As a solo veteran player, I'm out. This was so depressing back then. Being on the receiving end, at least you could take some anti meta jobs and delete their BH5 players just to piss them off (even if it wouldnt change the outcome of a game ending within 5min), but being on the same side? Felt like playing a healer in pve...

Premade players are just unhappy because they lost their godmode meta that was not only easy to pull off, but required enemy teams to pull the same to fight fire with fire. No thanks I'm good with what we have now, and frankly I still see regularly some premades moving around and seriously denting enemy teams, just not wiping the floor, and that seems a lot healthier in terms of balance to me.

[gidsonBrand]

There will never been any skirmishes like back in HW/SB as long as mount speed remains increased and map design and objectives don't push more seriously for team splitting.

One of the few good parts of Secure was the ability to shadow capture the enemy's nodes when the teams go to the middle, or if you're just feeling cheeky. That came with the risk of getting 24 players coming after you, but it could possibly result in a 4v8 or 8v8 situation if maps are designed like this in the future.

My main point is, more firepower from role actions, battle high, even the Secure point's damage buff means that kills and progress can be made without the entire alliance present. And I LOVE that!

Ad for the zerg tactics or not, if we go back to the premade meta where one premade can just play the game for the whole team?

Honestly, if we had to split into more skirmishes (and have the ability to win by doing so) then the meta might turn into 6 premades on a team, just for the added coordination. Which would be awesome -- right now, either the entire alliance succeeds or nobody does. If I'm going in with 3 of my friends, I at least want us to say we did something cool rather than getting anchored.

[Mawlzy]

Honestly, if we had to split into more skirmishes (and have the ability to win by doing so) then the meta might turn into 6 premades on a team, just for the added coordination. Which would be awesome -- right now, either the entire alliance succeeds or nobody does. If I'm going in with 3 of my friends, I at least want us to say we did something cool rather than getting anchored.

Which would be quite interesting.

But arguably the meta should have already evolved into six premades per team. And it hasn't for obvious reasons.

[FALCSMASH]

I like the direction Frontlines is going in but the server tick needs to be addressed as well. We can enhance actions all we want but until we can read the abilities/damage we are giving and receiving we will continue to see the same complaints. Skill is not always the answer or excuse we can throw as the problem. I see many threads say "You can't go by the animations" However there is never an answer to what to go to instead. Changes that I think need to be addressed are.

-Make Recuperate more expensive for non-support roles. Instead of 2500MP, make it 4000MP peruse. Non-support class sustainability is a little too good.

-Give us stun/silence vulnerability cd's. We should get a 30-second or longer immunity after being stunned or silenced consecutively. Frontlines has become someone who can hit you with stun/silence consecutively long enough so you can't act until your health bar is depleted.

[WutWut]

While we'll have to see how it functions in action before jumping to conclusions, battle high changes will probably result in more battle high across the board, especially among jobs that didn't have strong kill potential. This change is going to effect solo queuers and teams playing catch-up more than premades, I suspect. I personally look forward to not having to prioritize killing blows as much.

I'm really looking forward to role actions: more diversity of options in PvP is always a good thing.

[WutWut]

I like the direction Frontlines is going in but the server tick needs to be addressed as well. We can enhance actions all we want but until we can read the abilities/damage we are giving and receiving we will continue to see the same complaints. Skill is not always the answer or excuse we can throw as the problem. I see many threads say "You can't go by the animations" However there is never an answer to what to go to instead. Changes that I think need to be addressed are.

-Make Recuperate more expensive for non-support roles. Instead of 2500MP, make it 4000MP peruse. Non-support class sustainability is a little too good.

-Give us stun/silence vulnerability cd's. We should get a 30-second or longer immunity after being stunned or silenced consecutively. Frontlines has become someone who can hit you with stun/silence consecutively long enough so you can't act until your health bar is depleted.

1) Nerfing recuperate like this will only make Frontline even more rDPS and more premade reliant in practice: suddenly it's going to matter more if you're queuing up with a dedicated healer, and we're going to return to the pocket healer era. mDPS and tanks are perfectly killable as is with smart use of CC and burst damage.

2) 30 seconds sounds very long, but I could agree with some form of CC resistance outside of purify and similar support abilities: we actually had this for a while in ShB! 10s immunities for each type of CC and it being applied again. This was sorely missed when 6.1 came around.