FFXIV and Job Identity

[Mikey_R]

Little bit of clarification on DRK, In lieu of passive bonuses like PLD or WAR is why its receiving the 5% vitality bonus. defensive cooldowns would still provide mitigation as usual.

Dark Knight

Rework defensive cooldowns – Job would take straight damage from the attack but recover health and/or MP depending on the cooldown.

To facilitate taking the extra damage DRK would receive a 5% Vitality Bonus

You quite literally imply that DRK would have no mitigation and would instead just face tank the damage, resorting to healing the damage up afterwards.

The fact you just played to the end of DT MSQ (of which I am assuming you mean 7.0) and stopped, only to resub recently heavily implies you have no idea how any jobs work at max level and, judging by other comments, have no idea in general about how jobs work at all. This is why I always say the only people who should be listened to are the ones who actually play the jobs. Despite having Ninja at 100, you don't want to ask me how to change or improve Ninja, as I, quite frankly, do not care. The gameplay doesn't appeal to me much past just levelling it, so ask someone else who cares. The same can be said for you and these ideas. You do not know how the jobs play, so why should I look to you for design decisions that you have no clue about.

[ETermin]

You quite literally imply that DRK would have no mitigation and would instead just face tank the damage, resorting to healing the damage up afterwards.

Straight damage - meaning there are no passives alotted to DRK. Pld receiving a % increase of defense based off gear, and warning receiving a 5% straight across the board damage received.

Mitigations would still work as normal with the exception of DRK gaining an amount health healed based off damage taken. The healing is the passive buff for DRK in this proposal.


Also no reason to be rude, if I wanted that I would just go to reddit.

I will also iterate again the ideas aren't perfect because yes I haven't really played the classes at 100, but I have played some of them previously at level caps and have experienced how all jobs have become simplified in the raid scene from 2.0 to 7.0

[FlorineC]

I'm pretty sure you've just created 2.0 Warrior with your DRK changes, and 2.0 Warrior was terrible. It was a job built around having little to no mitigation and relied on self-healing. No Rampart, Vengeance didn't have mitigation on it, Inner Beast also didn't mitigate and only healed, Thrill gave you 10% HP instead of 20% and was on a 3 minute cooldown, so you're only active mit was Foresight, which I think was roughly 8-12% mitigation for physical damage depending on your gear. Turns out, in a game built around large, predictable spike damage, taking more damage and then theoretically healing it back up is worse than just taking way less damage in the first place.

[CalvinDescoles]

Your tierlist is... well... let's say that this is your opinion cause i would really never sort thing like this. And the problem with the thread is basically this... everything is your opinion.

Just a small example but your tank tier list make no sens to me, Gunbreaker is actually harder but if you take the fight design into the thinking process. And making Paladin easier than Warrior... Bard as "tier1" is making also no sens to me were there is more to know about the job and it flaws in its design (ogcd order, refresh timing, song management in fight like ultimate, priority) and puting Dancer as "harder" than Bard where it is basically... ressources management...
Astrologian and "complexe card system"... i mean ok it is may be the hardest heal in theory, but it's not Stormblood Astrologian. Ninja as easier than Monk ?

Ok so yeah may be it is my opinion about this but...

So yeah if you really wanted to make a more optimal tier list you should have eventually make a survey idk...

...

[Laisimo]

Idk, just your tier list really reflects how little you know about the jobs and how they work together when doing harder where you need to rely on raidbuffs and timings in a bossfight. Samurai in Tier 1 shared with summoner while dancer and reaper goes into tier 2? Your arguments about where the different jobs end up in that tier list also shows how little you understand them.

[Mikey_R]

Straight damage - meaning there are no passives alotted to DRK. Pld receiving a % increase of defense based off gear, and warning receiving a 5% straight across the board damage received.

Mitigations would still work as normal with the exception of DRK gaining an amount health healed based off damage taken. The healing is the passive buff for DRK in this proposal.


Also no reason to be rude, if I wanted that I would just go to reddit.

I will also iterate again the ideas aren't perfect because yes I haven't really played the classes at 100, but I have played some of them previously at level caps and have experienced how all jobs have become simplified in the raid scene from 2.0 to 7.0

If you die to the hit, you aren't getting healed, thus deleted. You need to survive the initial hit. Scholar's Excogitation, Gunbreaker's Heart of Corundum and Dark knight's Shadowed Vigil will all attest to that.

If pointing out your ignorance means I am being rude, then I don't know what to say. However, it should be a wake up call to actually go out and get that hands on experience so you can come back with better ideas that might actually fit the jobs better.

I would also suggest, if you do this again, to try and make things actually make sense. This will be easier with the aforementioned hands on experience as you have a better idea as to how things play.

[Carighan]

1. To ensure that DNC has a more consistent opener and is able to use saber dance more consistently.

That is very much the status quo, hence the "why?". Let me repeat: Why?

2. Yes I have. I also know how easy it is for things to drift.

Yes, a lack of drift-resistance exists. If you compare jobs with built-in drift resistance or even recovery vs those without, you'll notice a pattern emerging. Suffice to say, if you were to change this on Dancer you'd a) not change it on Flourish as that's really not the thing to be worried about in regards to drifting and b) open a fascinating can of worms. More so against the background of Black Mages just tomorrow getting their failure states removed.

3. With the buffs to BRD dnc would need a slight party buff.

Why? As every time, you seem to either not know the job(s) involved at all, or misunderstand them gravely. Importantly, "Why" in regards to needing a party buff, which I thought was obvious. Apologies.

[Carighan]

Song chains is a buff directly to songs and to BRD dps.

Ideally the end result would be something like this.

Dancer
Low pDPS + High rDPS

BRD
med pDPS + med rDPS

MCH
high pDPS - no rDPS

All within 500 combined dps of each other.

Congratulations, developer ETermin. You have been assigned the prestigious position of "Criterion Savage vs Ultimate" balance dev. Please clarify your previous ideas before your first dev planning meetings coming up in 2 hours.

(that is, if one could just do what you assume possible there, we wouldn't have 80%++ of the balance issues any MMORPG has, ever - it's entirely utopian however, it cannot be done or at least we have to assume that since nobody has so far managed in ~30 years of graphical MMO games)

[AmiableApkallu]

I emphatically disagree with the premise that jobs should forcibly be placed into tiers. Every job should be easy to pick up, and have some reasonably, obvious straightforward way to play it. Every job should provide room for optimization and for players to show off their skill.

I'm especially annoyed at yet another proposal that treats WHM as Baby's First Healer, as if the White Mages of Amdapor were simpletons that just stood there casting Cure III while they waited for Mhach to give up and go home.

Effects

WHM becomes a powerhouse in raw healing and in raw DPS capabilities while being able to support the party through the utility of a debuff. Increases reliance on other healers to clear high end content creating a meta of DPS vs Healing capabilities. DPS capabilities are tied to movement making optimization more challenging at higher end gameplay while still being accessible. Reducing the cost and time for raise pushes WHM to become the defacto raise job allowing to still have a place in progression.

WHM is already dependent on the rest of the party in high end content because it has next to nothing for handling single-hit raid-wides that lop off 100+% of your HP unmitigated. "If we survive, I'll heal you" is a terrible identity, and it feels awful in practice. WHM needs more access to shields and mitigation, not less.

And adding a debuff to Dia changes nothing. It was already "a must have for optimization" because of the total damage it delivers.

[Mercury_Grey]

I emphatically disagree with the premise that jobs should forcibly be placed into tiers. Every job should be easy to pick up, and have some reasonably, obvious straightforward way to play it. Every job should provide room for optimization and for players to show off their skill.

I'm especially annoyed at yet another proposal that treats WHM as Baby's First Healer, as if the White Mages of Amdapor were simpletons that just stood there casting Cure III while they waited for Mhach to give up and go home.



WHM is already dependent on the rest of the party in high end content because it has next to nothing for handling single-hit raid-wides that lop off 100+% of your HP unmitigated. "If we survive, I'll heal you" is a terrible identity, and it feels awful in practice. WHM needs more access to shields and mitigation, not less.

And adding a debuff to Dia changes nothing. It was already "a must have for optimization" because of the total damage it delivers.

i have to ask on what you want to give for WHM to be a shielder which would make it so there is 2 shielders and their step children. I'd rathor WHM bemore of a healer with some DPS then a healer that can do everything from shielding to healing. Makes me think of the StB AST and how you had to choose between shielding or healing stances.