FFXIV and Job Identity

[Voryn]

A bunch of these ideas don’t work or have new problems.

First of all, what is accessibility to you, and how is overall difficulty judged? In normal difficulty content, how hard it is to play your job perfectly does not even matter. And your tier list goes up, each tier increases all of the metrics (punishment for mistakes, execution requirements, and complexity of the game plan) but this does not need to be the case. It also currently is not how the game works - DRK presses more inputs in its burst window than GNB so is arguably harder than in that regard, but GNB is more strict and more punishing for mistakes, as it has requirements that need to be met for using the cooldowns that also cost resources.

You say that all the 1 2 3 between bursts for tanks is a problem (and I agree) but your PLD, DRK, and GNB ideas don’t address this at all. The GNB idea actually makes it worse - it makes it so stepping away from the boss does not affect the rotation.

Your WAR idea of getting mitigation by attacking needs more detail to explain how it works. Can WAR mit tankbusters during downtime (eg. DSR Strength of the Ward)? How will the existence of burst windows and party buffs affect how WAR players will use these attacks?

As mentioned by Mikey, your proposed DRK will just die outright to tankbusters. IIRC the tankbusters in M1S do over 300k base damage, and tanks had around 200k max health on week 1.

I don’t mean to be rude but it seems clear that you don’t have much experience with many of the jobs, at least in their current states. You put the current BRD, VPR, PLD, and SAM all in the same tier of difficulty? Focusing on specific ones and getting into more detail with them would be a better way of expressing your ideas.

[ETermin]

As mentioned by Mikey, your proposed DRK will just die outright to tankbusters. IIRC the tankbusters in M1S do over 300k base damage, and tanks had around 200k max health on week 1.

Little bit of clarification on DRK, In lieu of passive bonuses like PLD or WAR is why its receiving the 5% vitality bonus. defensive cooldowns would still provide mitigation as usual.

[Mikey_R]

Little bit of clarification on DRK, In lieu of passive bonuses like PLD or WAR is why its receiving the 5% vitality bonus. defensive cooldowns would still provide mitigation as usual.

Dark Knight

Rework defensive cooldowns – Job would take straight damage from the attack but recover health and/or MP depending on the cooldown.

To facilitate taking the extra damage DRK would receive a 5% Vitality Bonus

You quite literally imply that DRK would have no mitigation and would instead just face tank the damage, resorting to healing the damage up afterwards.

The fact you just played to the end of DT MSQ (of which I am assuming you mean 7.0) and stopped, only to resub recently heavily implies you have no idea how any jobs work at max level and, judging by other comments, have no idea in general about how jobs work at all. This is why I always say the only people who should be listened to are the ones who actually play the jobs. Despite having Ninja at 100, you don't want to ask me how to change or improve Ninja, as I, quite frankly, do not care. The gameplay doesn't appeal to me much past just levelling it, so ask someone else who cares. The same can be said for you and these ideas. You do not know how the jobs play, so why should I look to you for design decisions that you have no clue about.

[ETermin]

You quite literally imply that DRK would have no mitigation and would instead just face tank the damage, resorting to healing the damage up afterwards.

Straight damage - meaning there are no passives alotted to DRK. Pld receiving a % increase of defense based off gear, and warning receiving a 5% straight across the board damage received.

Mitigations would still work as normal with the exception of DRK gaining an amount health healed based off damage taken. The healing is the passive buff for DRK in this proposal.


Also no reason to be rude, if I wanted that I would just go to reddit.

I will also iterate again the ideas aren't perfect because yes I haven't really played the classes at 100, but I have played some of them previously at level caps and have experienced how all jobs have become simplified in the raid scene from 2.0 to 7.0

[FlorineC]

I'm pretty sure you've just created 2.0 Warrior with your DRK changes, and 2.0 Warrior was terrible. It was a job built around having little to no mitigation and relied on self-healing. No Rampart, Vengeance didn't have mitigation on it, Inner Beast also didn't mitigate and only healed, Thrill gave you 10% HP instead of 20% and was on a 3 minute cooldown, so you're only active mit was Foresight, which I think was roughly 8-12% mitigation for physical damage depending on your gear. Turns out, in a game built around large, predictable spike damage, taking more damage and then theoretically healing it back up is worse than just taking way less damage in the first place.

[Mikey_R]

Straight damage - meaning there are no passives alotted to DRK. Pld receiving a % increase of defense based off gear, and warning receiving a 5% straight across the board damage received.

Mitigations would still work as normal with the exception of DRK gaining an amount health healed based off damage taken. The healing is the passive buff for DRK in this proposal.


Also no reason to be rude, if I wanted that I would just go to reddit.

I will also iterate again the ideas aren't perfect because yes I haven't really played the classes at 100, but I have played some of them previously at level caps and have experienced how all jobs have become simplified in the raid scene from 2.0 to 7.0

If you die to the hit, you aren't getting healed, thus deleted. You need to survive the initial hit. Scholar's Excogitation, Gunbreaker's Heart of Corundum and Dark knight's Shadowed Vigil will all attest to that.

If pointing out your ignorance means I am being rude, then I don't know what to say. However, it should be a wake up call to actually go out and get that hands on experience so you can come back with better ideas that might actually fit the jobs better.

I would also suggest, if you do this again, to try and make things actually make sense. This will be easier with the aforementioned hands on experience as you have a better idea as to how things play.

[CSX]

I like your ideas, a lot of them sent me on a nostalgia trip for some reason lol but like Carighan said it would lock out jobs from content. Which shouldn't be an issue in a game where you can play all classes on 1 but it somehow is an issue.

It sucks, since Final Fantasy, traditionally isn't about balanced jobs. It's about bringing the strongest jobs to encounters. Which is what we had back when Titan was the hardest encounter, MNK use to slay for that extra blunt damage, Summoners used to be able to stand in tank with Titan, Eos was a pure healer Selene was a buffer/debuffer(silencer), AST card RNG was garbage but man was it fun, Aggro was a thing. Good times, but people that focus on 1 job, in a game where you can play them all on 1; complained at every turn after every patch. I don't think we're going back.

[ETermin]

I like your ideas, a lot of them sent me on a nostalgia trip for some reason lol but like Carighan said it would lock out jobs from content. Which shouldn't be an issue in a game where you can play all classes on 1 but it somehow is an issue.

It sucks, since Final Fantasy, traditionally isn't about balanced jobs. It's about bringing the strongest jobs to encounters. Which is what we had back when Titan was the hardest encounter, MNK use to slay for that extra blunt damage, Summoners used to be able to stand in tank with Titan, Eos was a pure healer Selene was a buffer/debuffer(silencer), AST card RNG was garbage but man was it fun, Aggro was a thing. Good times, but people that focus on 1 job, in a game where you can play them all on 1; complained at every turn after every patch. I don't think we're going back.

I agree FF isn't necessarily about balanced jobs.

I do miss old scholar, but I understand why they split the healers the way they did.

[Mercury_Grey]

1. To ensure that DNC has a more consistent opener and is able to use saber dance more consistently.

2. Yes I have. I also know how easy it is for things to drift.

3. With the buffs to BRD dnc would need a slight party buff.

How would they buff DNC without it out shining BRD? I have seen some high end parties use a DNC over a BRD since bard buffs is tied to the party and a DNC can buff a low dps dealing job to increase its DPS to a better level.

[ETermin]

How would they buff DNC without it out shining BRD? I have seen some high end parties use a DNC over a BRD since bard buffs is tied to the party and a DNC can buff a low dps dealing job to increase its DPS to a better level.

Song chains is a buff directly to songs and to BRD dps.

Ideally the end result would be something like this.

Dancer
Low pDPS + High rDPS

BRD
med pDPS + med rDPS

MCH
high pDPS - no rDPS

All within 500 combined dps of each other. If we are going with debuffs being added back in,

Dnc - slashing
Brd - piercing
Mch - blunt

Each having an advantage in certain compositions.