FFXIV and Job Identity

[ETermin]

About myself
I was a long-time subscriber of Final Fantasy XIV. I had been almost continuously subscribed from the launch of A Realm Reborn to the launch of the most recent expansion, Dawntrail. I have had Black Mage as my main and stuck with it through its strong points and lesser points. I have also done my fair share of extraneous content outside of savage raiding. I have had multiple jobs at level caps during various expansions. I do not claim to be an expert at every job or role. I posted a very informal writeup on Reddit about this topic and given the feedback decided to resubscribe just to post it here on the official forums with more detail that were no conveyed due to typing it on my mobile phone and before going to sleep.

What is Job Identity?
Job identity is the core mechanics of gameplay that makes the job feel different from other. Key aspects that form job identity can be broken down into the following: Role Identity, Unique Gameplay Mechanics, and Lore & Aesthetics.

Why this discussion about Job Identity?
The recent upcoming changes to Black Mage have sparked controversy over how simple and homogenous the gameplay has come for many of the jobs within the game. There has been significant discussion about what makes for a good job identity and gameplay. Is job identity expressing its core roots through aesthetic, skills, or gameplay? Is job homogenization okay since it allows more players to access more roles?

How will you approach this topic?
There will be sections focusing on what each role’s current state looks like, how to reintroduce identity into that role, the same approach will be applied for each jobs. Lastly there will be a section for miscellaneous items that would assist with identity development.

What has been lost along the way?
ARR and HWd used the cross-class system to obtain skills from other roles. This was done away in favor for the role system that was used in StB. ShB revisited the role system again to what is currently used today. During the migration of skills to the role system a significant part of what made the jobs unique faded away.

Personal Opinions
The gameplay loop has become very stale due to homogenization of each job. I feel less compelled to try other jobs within my role. When playing tanks or healer, they do not feel exciting. Jumping between PLD, WAR, DRK, GNB it’s the same 1-2-3 rotation with a burst window. WHM and AST feel close to the same as does SCH and SGE. When playing Melee DPS or Ranged DPS, I am playing follow the flashing yellow button. SMN has become follow the rotation, RDM has the most uniqueness of the casters with the upcoming changes to BLM in 7.2.

TL: DR – Go Read

[ETermin]

Goals of the Proposed Tier System in terms of Identity
The main goal is to provide accessible Jobs with varying levels of complexity and move away from simple is better since more people can play the jobs. The goal is not to rewrite the entire rotation system. Proposed adjustments would provide additional unique gameplay for each job, stay in line with its gameplay role, and adhere to its underlying lore. The intention is to keep the easy to pick up, takes effort to master that was prominent during earlier expansions.

The game should still be accessible to all sorts of individuals as there are many with disabilities who play this game. At the same time it should not alienate its long-term players by only listening to those that are actively subscribed. This is a difficult balance to achieve, and I understand that. Hopefully this discussion will become a way to express the current state of the game. There are other issues with FFXIV but today I will just be focusing on the gameplay of the classes and what makes their Identity.
 
Tier System Reference

Tier 1 (Beginner-Friendly) - Most Accessible

Simple rotations, minimal resource management, and high forgiveness. These jobs have intuitive mechanics, low punishment for mistakes, and fewer buttons to manage.

Tier 2 (Easy to Learn, Harder to Master)

More mechanics introduced but still forgiving. Some optimization needed. These jobs introduce some optimization mechanics but are still relatively easy to perform well with.

Tier 3 (Moderate Difficulty, Requires Awareness) - Average Player Accessible

Jobs with stricter rotations, reliance on buffs, or frequent mechanics. These jobs require more awareness of cooldown alignment, positioning, or resource management but remain accessible

Tier 4 (High Complexity, Requires Execution & Optimization)

High Complexity (Demanding Execution & Awareness) Jobs with multiple resource bars, stance swaps, and strict optimization requirements. These jobs require tight execution, proper cooldown management, and positioning awareness to maximize effectiveness.

Tier 5 (Most Difficult, Heavy Resource/Mechanic Management) - Most Complex

Most Difficult (Complex, Unforgiving, High Optimization Needed) These jobs require expert-level execution, resource tracking, and adaptability. These jobs punish mistakes heavily, have tight timing requirements, and require constant situational awareness.

[ETermin]

Current Tier System

Tier 1

(PLD) Paladin - Straightforward tank with shields, self-healing, and an easy-to-follow combo.

(BRD) Bard - Simple ranged DPS with an intuitive DoT (damage over time) system and mobility.

(SAM) Samurai - No party utility, just a simple but effective damage rotation.

(WHM) White Mage - The most straightforward healer with big heals and minimal complexity.

(SMN) Summoner - Rotation revolves around summon phases.

Tier 2

(WAR) Warrior - Very tanky, self-sustaining tank with an easy rotation, but needs proper cooldown usage.

(DRG) Dragoon - Straightforward combo structure, but positionals and jump timing add complexity.

(RPR) Reaper - Smooth melee DPS rotation with a powerful burst phase but requires managing the Soul Gauge.

(DNC) Dancer - Easy execution, but optimal play relies on buff timing and procs.

(SGE) Sage - Shield healer with a damage-to-healing playstyle via Kardia, rewarding good balance.

(PCT) Pictomancer - Very flexible rotation outside of buff window.

(VPR) Viper - fast-paced melee DPS with dual-wielding weapon transformations, requiring fluid combo execution and gauge management for optimal burst damage.

Tier 3

(GNB) Gunbreaker - Faster-paced tank with a cartridge system requiring tight execution.

(NIN) Ninja - High APM (actions per minute) job with Mudras (hand sign abilities) that must be used correctly.

(MCH) Machinist - No party buffs, but a fast rotation with strict cooldown alignment for big bursts.

(SCH) Scholar - Shield healer with a pet mechanic (fairy management).

(RDM) Red Mage - Instant-cast mechanics and an easy melee finisher system, requires some awareness for mana gauge.

 

Tier 4

(DRK) Dark Knight - Requires precise Blood Gauge and Mana management while handling tanking responsibilities.

(MNK) Monk - Positional-heavy with chakra management, fast-paced gameplay, and constant movement.

(AST) Astrologian - Complex card system requiring real-time decision-making for buffs.

Tier 5

(BLM) Black Mage - Demands perfect optimization, no movement mistakes, and mana balance for top-tier damage.

[ETermin]

Proposed Tier System

Accessible Gameplay - Entry Level - Picking up the class

Tier 1
PLD / WHM/ SAM / DNC / BLM

Tier 2
GNB / SCH / SGE / RPR / VPR / BRD / SMN

Tier 3
WAR / MNK / NIN / MCH / RDM

Tier 4
DRK / AST

Tier 5
No Jobs here yet

High End Gameplay - Expert Level - Optimization based

Tier 1
No classes should be tier 1

Tier 2
PLD / WHM / VPR

Tier 3
RPR / DNC / SMN

Tier 4
WAR / GNB / SCH / SGE / NIN / BRD / RDM

Tier 5
DRK / AST / SAM / MNK / MCH / BLM

[ETermin]

Miscellaneous Adjustments

Debuffs

While extremely controversial, debuffs such as piercing, blunt, and slashing should make a return. As of Dawntrail there are currently 21 jobs and more on the way, by bringing back debuff it would lead to multiple meta party compositions. The meta would be able to be changed per fight basis as SE could make some encounters immune to certain debuffs.

Aggro Management

The current iteration of aggro management, it is effectively a non-mechanic. Aggro is a mechanism that should be managed by all roles. Stormblood had the best iteration of the mechanic so I will be building from that.

While it was difficult to maintain aggro for some tanks this can be remedied by reintroducing an equivalent of Sword and Shield Oath. By adding a 30s cooldown that would increase aggro generation would also add another form of aggro management for 2 tank fights

For Healers enmity dumping was removed from lucid dreaming making it a skill only used when you need mana. Adding a separate skill for aggro dumping or reintroducing it to lucid dreaming could work.

DPS aggro management was also completely removed. Reintroduce this by various means (Diversion or Quelling Strikes) or similar to healer management.

Meta Compositions

Meta should be embraced as it allows people to feel accomplished as they figure out how to optimize an encounter. All Classes should still be able to complete an encounter, the meta would be able to complete it faster.

[Mikey_R]

Miscellaneous Adjustments

Debuffs

While extremely controversial, debuffs such as piercing, blunt, and slashing should make a return. As of Dawntrail there are currently 21 jobs and more on the way, by bringing back debuff it would lead to multiple meta party compositions. The meta would be able to be changed per fight basis as SE could make some encounters immune to certain debuffs.

Welcome to the Slashing meta where your job choices are Warrior, Gunbreaker, Samurai, Viper, Reaper, Ninja and Dancer. You caster and healers do not matter, unless you can use a 3rd melee effectively to be ranged when required. this is literally HW/SB, but worse.

As for making bosses immune to certain debuffs, that just locks jobs from fights in a game where the dev team has explicitly said the do not want jobs locked out of fights. Every job has to be able to clear everything and imposing a restriction on a job does not help.

Aggro Management

The current iteration of aggro management, it is effectively a non-mechanic. Aggro is a mechanism that should be managed by all roles. Stormblood had the best iteration of the mechanic so I will be building from that.

While it was difficult to maintain aggro for some tanks this can be remedied by reintroducing an equivalent of Sword and Shield Oath. By adding a 30s cooldown that would increase aggro generation would also add another form of aggro management for 2 tank fights

For Healers enmity dumping was removed from lucid dreaming making it a skill only used when you need mana. Adding a separate skill for aggro dumping or reintroducing it to lucid dreaming could work.

DPS aggro management was also completely removed. Reintroduce this by various means (Diversion or Quelling Strikes) or similar to healer management.

Meta Compositions

Meta should be embraced as it allows people to feel accomplished as they figure out how to optimize an encounter. All Classes should still be able to complete an encounter, the meta would be able to complete it faster.

Stormblood aggro management was ass. It was something dealt with by the DPS and healers and not really tanks.

Just adding a button to press every 30 seconds is just busy work and is a band aid fix to a clear issue. Might as well make it a toggle.

No one likes a clear winner comp as, whilst every job might be able to clear, if it is easier with another comp, that will be the one to use. Look at Pictomancer and FRU or P8S where jobs were being left behind due to bad damage.

And, whilst I'm not going to quote everything, all your random comments about the jobs are just random stuff thrown together with no thought on anything. As some examples, DRK having no mitigation, it is straight up getting deleted before it can restore any health and no, a 5% VIT bonus will not save it. Then you have things that make me wonder whether you know about the current game, for example, giving Monk a second charge on PB, when it already has one, the blitz system doesn't even make sense (do you need to use one of each? can you do multiple of the same? etc.) and your Leaping Opo thing makes no sense either. 'Additional effect based on stance' What? Not to mention Coeurl increasing a twin snakes buff that doesn't exist anymore.

SAM, Tsubame-Gaeshi, 2 charges with a 10 second cooldown? Not even relevant to current SAM due to how it has been changed. BLM looks a mess, RDM has something if you balance White/Black magick, despite that going against what the job is supposed to do and giving Verholy and Verflare effects that make Verflare the obvious choice in basically all situations actually reduces the planning of the RDM as you no longer have the choice based on mana balance and your current buffs.

Everything is just a mess and seems to be based on outdated information. Honestly, if you were trying to convince someone that these were good ideas, you have failed. I would recommend concentrating on one role and explain, in more detail, what you want the general shape of the jobs to look like, what additional things you want to add. It is also important to state why you think the particular role has been diversified more than what it currently is because, let's be honest, noone can really say what 'Job Identity' means.

[ETermin]

As for making bosses immune to certain debuffs, that just locks jobs from fights in a game where the dev team has explicitly said the do not want jobs locked out of fights. Every job has to be able to clear everything and imposing a restriction on a job does not help.

Since debuffs are damage received based, it is not locking jobs out of fights, it adjusts how the fight has to be approached from an optimization standpoint. None of this locks a class on a fight, it incentivizes optimization based gameplay, something that is sorely missing right now.

[Carighan]

Since debuffs are damage received based, it is not locking jobs out of fights, it adjusts how the fight has to be approached from an optimization standpoint. None of this locks a class on a fight, it incentivizes optimization based gameplay, something that is sorely missing right now.

You are new to MMORPGs as a genre, yes? As in, you have no experience how this factually locks out classes from a fight because you have just never had the experience, yes?

Also some interesting individual observations:

* Your Red Mage idea just has 1 optimal solution. Without numbers it's impossible to say whether it is to keep Black > White or keep them balanced, but it'll be one of those two. Since Verflare gives black mana, I suspect it'll be that one, but I can't know without numbers, either way there's no actual player choice involved, it's just a static solution.
* Summoner is more interesting, but only the Titan part. The other two are irrelevant, as you cycle them anyways. There could be a marginal optimization akin to intentionally mis-using your melee combo on RDM because you could do a late Ifrit to get below whatever the threshhold is one cycle, and another early one right before the boss dies. Over the whole time of a fight though, utterly doesn't matter. All three would need to have non-damage effects like Titan for some player agency to evolve (the same is true for the RDM thing, make all three non-damage-related to make them matter as a choice).
* The Dancer changes seem illogical. Esprit is already an unreliable gain, so no need to give a bonus based on a randomized combo. Plus you can already overcap it easily in some situations, again, no need. The Flourish change sounds weird, because that's just a flat boost then as yeah, that's how you use it. Devilment goes against the whole idea of Dancer. Tilana again seems to indicate you don't play Dancer or aren't aware how the job works.
* You also write ideas for the PRanged jobs, then your individual per-job ideas don't actually reflect those ideas any more.
* You also don't play Reaper, I take it? Because eh... you might want to go into Shroud on one. You'll be surprised. >.>

I could go on, but eh... anyway there's some individually neat ideas in there, but also a ton of bewildering ones, and a whole host that either don't reflect the current design of jobs (as in, that's just not how stuff works), or that already work the way you want them to.

[ETermin]

* Your Red Mage idea just has 1 optimal solution. Without numbers it's impossible to say whether it is to keep Black > White or keep them balanced, but it'll be one of those two. Since Verflare gives black mana, I suspect it'll be that one, but I can't know without numbers, either way there's no actual player choice involved, it's just a static solution.

The idea was to give RDM a little more flexibility in their rotation by switching between +10 black and incentivize having a clean rotation for the +10% damage. The player would be alternating between the two. The HoT effect is not ideal, and thats the point. The hope was to reward having a clean rotation for higher end gameplay.

* Summoner is more interesting, but only the Titan part.

I didnt have a lot of ideas for SMN due to how simplified its become over the expansions. This is the best i really could come up with.

* The Dancer changes seem illogical. Esprit is already an unreliable gain, so no need to give a bonus based on a randomized combo. Plus you can already overcap it easily in some situations, again, no need. The Flourish change sounds weird, because that's just a flat boost then as yeah, that's how you use it. Devilment goes against the whole idea of Dancer. Tilana again seems to indicate you don't play Dancer or aren't aware how the job works.

The goal was to make capping espirit in the opener more guaranteed to reduce the amount of RNG.

Flourish, last i remember was it being used in the opener or right after, by granting the +5s duration to Technical finish it was to promote keeping it aligned with TF.

Devilment - The core of devilment would stay the same where it grants one person +20%/+20%, the rest of the party would gain +2% crit making it a slight party buff

* You also write ideas for the PRanged jobs, then your individual per-job ideas don't actually reflect those ideas any more.

Dancer - yea i guess its not really reactive, increasing utility seems good.
BRD - Songs were really weak on brd last i remember, the goal was to increase dps via performing songs efficiently and increase their effectiveness
MCH - Yea its kind of a total rework that would bring back the cast bar for higher dps, but I wanted to leave it accessible as a non-castbar job

* You also don't play Reaper, I take it? Because eh... you might want to go into Shroud on one. You'll be surprised. >.>

I havent played reaper into the higher levels. I was going off the complaints that I was hearing.

[ETermin]

Tanks
At the current state, all tanks feel the exact same when it comes to mitigation. Every tank has a 10% (15% for PLD Sheltron), Rampart (20%), a 30%, Invulnerability with a different effect, and a couple unique skills. The following proposals would add Identity by changing how the tanks would interact with targets.

Paladin - men and women marry exquisite swordplay with stalwart shieldwork to create a style of combat uncompromising in its defense. Clad in brilliant silver armor, they charge fearlessly into battle, ever ready to lay down their lives for their liege. To be a paladin is to protect, and those who choose to walk this path will become the iron foundation upon which the party's defense is built.

PLD in its current state is accessible, easy to learn with minimal optimizations.

Should receive a small percentage bonus based off current armor to reinforce the identity of being uncompromising in defense.

Add a 20 min cooldown at 5000 MP for raise. Upon use the player would receive the weakened debuff. The paladin lays down their life to raise a party member in an emergency. This would make PLD, the safe choice with the ability to see more of an encounter.

Warrior - On the northernmost edge of Abalathia's Spine exists a mountain tribe renowned for producing fearsome mercenaries. Wielding greataxes and known as warriors, these men and women learn to harness their inner-beasts and translate that power to unbridled savagery on the battlefield. In former times which saw war waged ceaselessly in Eorzea, the warriors featured prominently on the front lines of battle. With the arrival of peacetime, however, their art has descended into the shadows of obscurity, where it remains to this day.

Should receive a straight 5% damage reduction. This would allow newer players unfamiliar with cooldown usage to be more easily healed.

With the added damage reduction bonus, mitigations would be reworked to be generated based off of rotation. By utilizing the inner beast the player would generate defensive capabilities from attacking the target.

By tying defensive capabilities to rotation this would add complexity to warrior by adding a form of resource manage with defensive cooldowns.

Reduce the effectiveness of Nascent Flash

Warriors self-healing capabilities are over tuned and reduce the effectiveness of the healer role.