Seriously, it's the white knights who should leave the game (not trolling)

[Kazuke_Miso]

For you doomers, constant hate on this game isn't helping anything

Actually, it helps. There's a reason why Dawntrail has fewer new players than Heavensward and Stormblood, and it's because of its atrocious reputation.

For every doomer loudly hating on a game, we save a soul from having to experience this slop of a game. Players don't just have the power of the wallet, they also have the power of influencing reputation.



Look at Civ 7, a horrendous, half-baked, pseudo-live-service game in the Civ franchise, that is now below Civ 5 in concurrent player count. Consumers complaining about the atrocious UI, the unreasonable content pipeline (that is a live service model in all but name), the idiotic AI has worked and dissuaded other players from wasting $70 on this game (which let's be realistic will not even get you half of the full experience since they plan on releasing DLC after DLC for years).

Consumers have the power to inflict pain and damage on billion dollar companies and their studios if they band together and loudly criticize the company. Negative reputation works: Assassin's Creed's disastrous reputation has threatened Ubisoft with financial meltdown and failure, and they now put far more effort into quality and AC Shadows seems to be one of their better games in a long time, at least I hope so (it sits at 82% on Steam right now and that is with the culture war sword of Damocles hanging over its neck in the form of Yasuke.)

When game studios are afraid, and think this is their last chance before they get shut down, they will go full steam ahead and pour their souls into the game. That is what happened with Final Fantasy I.

For-profit game companies are fundamentally, in this sort of economic system, locked in an antagonistic relationship with you, the consumer. If you don't fight against them they'll just exploit you over and over again.

[Illianaro]

- snip -

This is really well put.

After my favorite game City of Heroes was shut down, FFXIV became my new home. I once no-lifed this game, but I have kids now. Steam informs me that I have clocked 5,691 hours of game time. There are 8,760 hours in a year (8,766 adjusted for leap years, or an additional 0.25 days in a year). When I mathed this out, it showed that I have spent 65% of a year playing this game. I have multiple alt characters (I know, I know, I can be all jobs on one character so why... yadda yadda yadda). I've spent more time in FFXIV than I ever spent in COH (which I now play again thanks to community-run servers popping up starting in 2019).

This isn't to say "look at me, I'm a veteran, so my opinion is the most important ever!" but to stress that when I say I love this game, I mean that I ADORE FFXIV. The most disingenuous response to criticism I see is "if you hate this game so much, go play something else." It is predicated on an assumption about my intent and motivations, on an assumption that criticism is born out of hatred. I feel so angry when people tell me how I feel, or make assumptions about my intents and motivations, because it shows a fundamental disinterest in understanding my point of view. After all, it's much easier to write me off if you assume that I don't care about something or hate it.

And it goes the same in the other direction. Assumptions are being made about why "white knights" are white knighting the game, which leads to ad hominem attacks happen. I cannot speak for why white knights are currently on the warpath against criticism but, as a former white knight myself, I ultimately realized that my responses came from a place of defensiveness and fear. After all, I had found a new home in FFXIV. I was afraid to lose another home. Whether I liked it or not, I had made this game a huge portion of my identity; in some ways it still is, but my relationship with it is healthier than it used to be. I was afraid that the complainers were right, that FFXIV was going downhill, and that it would die. Ultimately, many concerns the community had about the trajectory the game was headed - as far back as Stormblood/Shadowbringers - turned out to be remarkably prescient.

I am not here because I hate this game. I have way too much on my plate to add pointless, empty hatred to it. There aren't enough hours in the day and it's not worth it to waste my life hating a game. If I hated this game, I wouldn't be here.

I am here because I love this game so much. I am here because of the stories I have lived and created during my time in this game and the community. My frustrations with the parts of the game that I think need some serious attention and care come from my love of this game. I think about what this game has been, and what it could be, and I want to offer my support to it.

[Gunz_Zbestest]

Now that's actually truly funny. Both sides actually telling me to unsub?

Really this is my one big issue. Trying to emotionally appeal to people to quit. Knowing damn well they have like 20 alts and play more than anyone they're telling to quit.

[yesnt]

I'll say the same thing I say about any game, if you like it, play it, if you don't, don't play it. It's as simple as that. For the white knights, constructive criticism is a good thing, it lets the devs know what's wrong with the game and allows them to make changes. For you doomers, constant hate on this game isn't helping anything and you need to take a break for your own mental health. Speak your peace and walk away until the game gives you what you want.


"We'll if I unsub I'll lose my house!" Unless you have FC house, your house is worthless, how much time do you actually spend inside your house? I know I only spend about 5 minutes per month in mine.

Lady, if you hate the doomers, stop paying all your attention to them. Besides, not everyone who offers critique equals a doomer. ^^

[Raim]

Telling people to quit a game they might be playing for 10 years isn't productive. Those people are invested in the game and they don't like the direction its changed to. It makes way more sense to fight back instead of leaving.

[Xapapetsu]

Actually, it helps. There's a reason why Dawntrail has fewer new players than Heavensward and Stormblood, and it's because of its atrocious reputation.

For every doomer loudly hating on a game, we save a soul from having to experience this slop of a game. Players don't just have the power of the wallet, they also have the power of influencing reputation.



Look at Civ 7, a horrendous, half-baked, pseudo-live-service game in the Civ franchise, that is now below Civ 5 in concurrent player count. Consumers complaining about the atrocious UI, the unreasonable content pipeline (that is a live service model in all but name), the idiotic AI has worked and dissuaded other players from wasting $70 on this game (which let's be realistic will not even get you half of the full experience since they plan on releasing DLC after DLC for years).

Consumers have the power to inflict pain and damage on billion dollar companies and their studios if they band together and loudly criticize the company. Negative reputation works: Assassin's Creed's disastrous reputation has threatened Ubisoft with financial meltdown and failure, and they now put far more effort into quality and AC Shadows seems to be one of their better games in a long time, at least I hope so (it sits at 82% on Steam right now and that is with the culture war sword of Damocles hanging over its neck in the form of Yasuke.)

When game studios are afraid, and think this is their last chance before they get shut down, they will go full steam ahead and pour their souls into the game. That is what happened with Final Fantasy I.

For-profit game companies are fundamentally, in this sort of economic system, locked in an antagonistic relationship with you, the consumer. If you don't fight against them they'll just exploit you over and over again.

There's a difference between criticism to improve the quality of a game, and intentionally hating a game to cause it's downfall. I wouldn't call ffxiv slop, it's got it's flaws but it's still a good game especially from a new player perspective.

[Xapapetsu]

Lady, if you hate the doomers, stop paying all your attention to them. Besides, not everyone who offers critique equals a doomer. ^^

I said constructive criticism is a good thing for the game. Also the argument applies to people with a doomer attitude, if you don't like the game don't play it and don't consume content about it.

[yesnt]

I said constructive criticism is a good thing for the game. Also the argument applies to people with a doomer attitude, if you don't like the game don't play it and don't consume content about it.

Obviously, every single person who bought the subscription likes the game enough to pay for it. Thus, to assume people don't like the game just because their criticism is phrased in a way that hurts your white knight feelings is just: dismissive.

Or the people I assume you talk about are SO rich they don't care about the monthly fee and pay only to complain (who would do that tho), but you know what, a white knight should be happy about that since it supports their holy game and the company behind it.

[Xapapetsu]

Obviously, every single person who bought the subscription likes the game enough to pay for it. Thus, to assume people don't like the game just because their criticism is phrased in a way that hurts your white knight feelings is just: dismissive.

Or the people I assume you talk about are SO rich they don't care about the monthly fee and pay only to complain (who would do that tho), but you know what, a white knight should be happy about that since it supports their holy game and the company behind it.

You've never seen prior posts of mine pointing out all of the flaws I've seen in the game, or the feedback I gave when I saw the changes to blm have you? There's a proper way to express your concerns with the state of the game. Is it really necessary to nail your points to a coffin set it on fire and send them off on a viking funeral? Then again if you can't complain what else can you do in this content draught since there's obviously nothing better for you to do with your time.

[Valence]

Really this is my one big issue. Trying to emotionally appeal to people to quit. Knowing damn well they have like 20 alts and play more than anyone they're telling to quit.

I'll say it again, I'll leave and complain with my wallet the day there is nothing left for me to enjoy in this game. It is definitely true that things I do enjoy have been thinning, but not all of them are gone.

I wouldn't call ffxiv slop, it's got it's flaws but it's still a good game especially from a new player perspective.

Unfortunately I am way past being a new player. I probably became a veteran before ShB was a thing. Perhaps even in mid HW if we count casual content.
XIV is definitely a great game for new players. It may also have lost some of its luster at lower levels due to job dilution through level progression and homogenization, but that's not what matters the most for new players. They have a crazy amount of good content to go through, the novelty is still there, and they have enough to be kept busy until the true endgame at max level. Maybe if they actually do start raiding or taking things more seriously, they may stumble on XIV's problems sooner than expected, but that's about it.
The problem is more at the level of player retention.
The new player experience is definitely not the issue there, even if it has its (growing) flaws.