Seriously, it's the white knights who should leave the game (not trolling)

[Jeeqbit]

It is you who just need to get used to how the game is and that it makes people fedup, and that you will always have this in your community.

I'm aware of that from playing other MMORPGs. All MMORPGs have things to be negative about. The difference is always that the happy players just focus on the aspects they enjoy and that make them happy, rather than expecting everything to be perfect.

It's a bit like life. Most people would say that life is not perfect and they just deal with their circumstances - such as living in a bad neighborhood, high taxes, high bills, laws they don't agree with, products they need but that are badly designed and annoying. But many of those people just focus on the aspects of it that they do like and that make them happy, such as their friends, because the alternative is perpetual depression.

Or you need to just stop complaining about people complaining

For me personally, it's about providing scrutiny of the complaints. Conspiracy theories are a common thing these days, but if those conspiracy theorists tried to disprove their own conspiracy theories they often would. For example, the 5g thing is ridiculous. On the other hand, the Wuhan lab explanation had merit. Scrutiny of the scrutiny is important.

Instead, it is typical for humans to live in echo chambers - communities of people who share the exact same view. They perpetuate eachother's view, such that it becomes the normal and accepted viewpoint. It's made worse by websites like Facebook where they simply remove friends that don't see things the same way, or join groups where everyone thinks the same thing.

So you see, people of opposing views posting on these forums is good. Seeing things from an alternative perspective can make you consider an alternative way to perceive it that you hadn't considered because of being so deep in this echo chamber.

The problem is really when none of the posts are constructive, and don't have any depth whatsoever. Whether someone is being positive or negative, if the post lacks depth and doesn't explain why, how, bullet point issues, reasons and examples, it doesn't contribute anything really.

[yesnt]

It's a bit like life. Most people would say that life is not perfect and they just deal with their circumstances - such as living in a bad neighborhood, high taxes, high bills, laws they don't agree with, products they need but that are badly designed and annoying.

This comparison fails. These are things we can not avoid. This game is an optional service that we pay for willingly. Thus, the service must be worth the money, thus, the lack of that service must be criticized. In fact, it is rather stupid to accept a bad service and even go all the way out to defend it.

[Bad_Luck]

TLR
People don't change, you can’t win arguments online, OP is an insufferable douche

[Bad_Luck]

goober moment

Damn, you did my reply better

[Kaurhz]

Ideally..

Nobody should leave the game... This is just needless finger pointing of "No u"

Realistically all they need to do is find a solution that benefits all categories of players, e.g., finding that middle-ground without reducing the content to a husk, relic progression in Endwalker is a perfect example of this.. Or without giving people mountains to climb.. They can reach this balance.. Stormblood, IMO, was this balance.

It's healthy for people to have a contrary thought, e.g., thinking the game is good, the issue is just solely that some people will just outright dismiss or attack, rather than actually trying to understand.. If some people merely asked or tried to prod people then everything would be much easier.. But sometimes winning an argument on the internet, or trying to 1-up someone on the internet is far, far more important than trying to have a proper discussion.. Now this isn't exclusive to one side, but it's the far bigger problem than telling 1 group of people to leave.

[Gurgeh]

Ideally..

Nobody should leave the game... This is just needless finger pointing of "No u"

Realistically all they need to do is find a solution that benefits all categories of players, e.g., finding that middle-ground without reducing the content to a husk, relic progression in Endwalker is a perfect example of this.. Or without giving people mountains to climb.. They can reach this balance.. Stormblood, IMO, was this balance.

It's healthy for people to have a contrary thought, e.g., thinking the game is good, the issue is just solely that some people will just outright dismiss or attack, rather than actually trying to understand.. If some people merely asked or tried to prod people then everything would be much easier.. But sometimes winning an argument on the internet, or trying to 1-up someone on the internet is far, far more important than trying to have a proper discussion.. Now this isn't exclusive to one side, but it's the far bigger problem than telling 1 group of people to leave.

Lots of good points from many posts above, including about this BS being "insufferable". I'm marking that as a win. It was meant to be as insufferable as the 'white knights' tells us to just leave.
And yes 'thank you'! It is so stupid to tell people, they need to do what you want, be you, or leave. That was my point. It is the worst thing that has been going on.
Really, really unpleasant, really toxic.
"your unhappy, I don't care, F off and quit spoiling my buzz, me and my interests first!"
If the logic is stay away, (then apart form the goobers like me) why are 'white knights' (not an adequate name but its understood) coming to the forums and reading these negative posts. 'leave!' why? Because that's not how people work. And its not just my fellow goobers telling people to leave.
And that was the whole point of my post. I had an agenda, I was being a little bit manipulative. We've clearly got some seeds above that aren't going to grow. Or on other occasions one good goober deserves another.
It's not my idea of how to make friends. Influence people? It could be about 1/50. The ones that aren't influenced? Well, its my arrogance that they aren't going to be the least influenced my my post at all. Positively or negatively.

[Jojoya]

It is so stupid to tell people, they need to do what you want, be you, or leave. That was my point.

I'm not seeing anyone telling you that you need to do what they want or to be as they are. Suggestions to leave are usually done in good faith,

Ask yourself this: what benefit do you gain by continuing to pay for and play a game you no longer enjoy?

In case you're wondering, I'm on the way out myself. I am not enjoying the current game so I'm not going to spend any more money on it until it's back to a state I can enjoy. I just finished stripping two of my houses so I can relinquish them before the next lottery entry period starts and I'm waiting for a response from my friend that's trying to decide if he wants my personal FC house (that's going to get stripped and relinquished as well if not).

I'm not so delusional that I think things will change just because I keeping paying to complain. I don't know why so many others are still here after a couple of years of complaints about the state of the game. They're still unhappy and SE is USD180 (or more) richer from each and every one of them.

In fact, it is rather stupid to accept a bad service and even go all the way out to defend it.

It is also stupid to continue to pay for a bad service when you don't need it.

[Gurgeh]

I originally said this post wasn't a discussion it was a diatribe. But I have accidentally opened up a discussion with myself.
For most of the current problems I've held Yoshi responsible only by virtue of him having the most power and opportunity to bring about change for the good. No 'blame' involved. Just repsonsibility.
But the whole 'you should leave' schism that's going on, that was badly inflamed when idol Yoshi, declared "[if you don't like it] please play other games"
He is to 'blame' for how bad this has got.
And I do think, if he were to care about what's been going on (and frankly he may not even know) that he should make a public statement expressing
'disappointment that community are telling each other they should leave, its not an outcome he would hope for, his wish for it to cease, and apologising for the part his ill judged words have personally played in that'
He has just set such a bad example. He has emboldened.... (I'll be more diplomatic), the people who are inclined not to compromise even the smallest bit of their own well being, if they thinnk their is an other option, that better suits them or the needs of those to whom their benefits are better aligned.
Yoshi, these people admire you.
They follow you.
They listen to you.
If you tell us to F off an enjoy other games.
They are going to go "my daddy Yoshi said you should F off! So F off!"

[DynnDiablos]

Get off your cross honey, someone might need the wood.

[Valence]

Now that's actually truly funny. Both sides actually telling me to unsub?