Might one of XIV's biggest new problems be that localisation has gone downhill?

[TheBigE]

I don't know, but Wuk Lamat constantly saying "papa" instead of dad or father or even "pops" (which I felt suited her personality more) definitely didn't help with her already childish mindset. I hope I'm not the only one who was annoyed by this, especially since I play using JP voices and she was definitely saying "father."

[Misutoraru]

Switched to JP after Dawntrail. Because the VA's aside from Koana started sounded wooden and emotionless. Bad direction / scheduling prolly.
Only one I cant stand is Urianger in Japanese. He puts me to sleep. He legit kills scenes from what I watched in youtube on other expacs.

*Serious scene* *wooden JP Urianger calmly* "hurdigurdi hurr hurr"

Yeah, definitely prefer EN Urianger, but I also prefer EN Krile over JP one

[MikkoAkure]

Proof of where exactly the localizers have directly contributed to the fundamental lore of the game. Its such a big talking point from pro-localization FFXIV players that you would think someone would be able to point to something, anything specific.

We only know of what he’s specifically said in interviews but you seem to dismiss him saying his own contributions. There’s nowhere else specifically pointing out who made what other than those people themselves saying they were responsible for something in an interview. There’s no compendium with every single lore fact in the game with a tag crediting who came up with it.

Some things we do know are that the dragon language was invented by Koji before 1.0 even launched. He also has written quests and is responsible for the Lambs of Dalamud. He’s also credited on the lyric for the game’s songs.

This isn’t like the old days where the translators are outsourced to someone else with no connection to the game. At least in the case of EN version, they’re right there in the writing room and credited for lore.

And like I’ve said before, pixies being non-binary wasn’t a “change” one of the sources I’ve linked in a previous post says it’s lore.

[Doopliss]

Proof of where exactly the localizers have directly contributed to the fundamental lore of the game. Its such a big talking point from pro-localization FFXIV players that you would think someone would be able to point to something, anything specific.

Back when they did lore panels--look back for around 2014 or 2015, I believe--they talked a lot about the writing process. Koji and Oda worked pretty closely, especially when the team was smaller. There's specifically one around that time about levequests, and how much color Koji and his team injected into the world by writing them the way they did.

Loads of extra details in the ENG version of the text, versus the JP ones which were often pretty stiff and simple. It was so significant that JP users used to have a website back in the day translating lore from ENG levequests back into JP. This is, of course, just one example.

Basically, a lot of the language you like in ARR through SB that's gritty, weird and colorful can be attributed to the old localization team. A lot of extra world building about the smaller, more insignificant people on Hydaelyn can be attributed to them, too. And, if I'm remembering you correctly from other threads, we both think that shit matters a lot.

I'd let go of whatever weird grievances you have about localization from social media or whatever. Yeah there are some that suck shit and inject a lot of weird and awkward characterization or "politics(?)", but the FFXIV localization team cared a lot about their world and worked in tandem with the writers. Their worst case of actual change was Haurchefant, admittedly, though I'd argue he's still the same character, just less overt in wanting to. You know.

Anyway, most changes people complain about the localization doing are just changes in dialect. Like 99.9% of the time the message the character is conveying is the same, they're just saying it in a less overt or direct way, as befitting the type of archaism FFXIV characters use in the ENG localization. Of course since it's not a 100% literal, awkward translation, the same (ENG first language) players who think Urianger's high school level of Shakespearean is difficult to read can't actually understand what the character is saying.

The pixies (and all of the Fae in SHB, if you've noticed) are still non-binary in JP; the Japanese language just possesses ways to refer to people in a more ambiguous manner, since the language relies less on personal pronouns. In ENG they just have to use "they". Fae are genderless in a lot of folklore, too, so it's just playing into that aspect.

Back to the topic of the thread, I do speak in past tense because I do think the localization has gotten worse since changing the team. There is significantly less color in the world where the old team used to inject it, and, personally, I can feel that a lot.

[Burmecia]

Localizers injecting their politics does worry me. For example, how they made the Fae non-binary in ShB. Idk if I can say its a negative change, but it just rubs me the wrong way that the localizers are making such non-insignificant changes. Leave the writing and characterization to the writers.

I'll always be wary of the localizers after what they did to the DRK 50 quest. COMPLETELY changed a beautiful scene with Fray. On the other hand, I also think the changes they made in Our Compromise and Our Closure were better than the original. So its a mixed bag. But damn, that DRK 50 quest is beautiful in Japanese.

Everyone keeps saying french and german translations are pretty faithful.

But yeah -- has it been confirmed that the fairies they/themming themselves was definite attempt to bring in some non-binary visibility?
If so, yikes at that intent.

[Mawlzy]

I don't know, but Wuk Lamat constantly saying "papa" instead of dad or father or even "pops" (which I felt suited her personality more) definitely didn't help with her already childish mindset. I hope I'm not the only one who was annoyed by this, especially since I play using JP voices and she was definitely saying "father."

That was not on my long list of issues. "Papa" is commonly used in the SW US by Latinx. "Pops" would be bizarre IMO.

[Jeeqbit]

There is a world of difference between a localizer asking questions to make sure the English text is consistent with the lore written by the Japanese vs. actively taking part in creating the lore itself.

Here is a video where they talk about the localization being involved in the lore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btGq...YVlCnU&index=2

"One thing that's not known a lot about the localization process at Square Enix is that, rather than being off-site, all of the translation and the localization staff is on-site and we work directly with the team. We sit right next to the planners and right next to the world lore creators and so we're working with them every day."

"Something that a lot of people may not know is that not all of the game Final Fantasy XIV originates in Japanese and some of it actually starts in English. For example, monster names and place names - a lot of these are ideas I give to the team and then they're translated back into Japanese. And so rather than it all being one way from Japanese into other languages, it's a collaborative process where we work together and create something that, you know, can truly feel global."

As it says in the video, Koji (former English Localization Lead) created the Dragon language and I believe was involved in a lot of the 1.0 lore such as the leves and the Twelve and the associated swear words such as "Seven Hells" and "Thal's Balls". Even recently, the English Localization Lead discussed how they came up with place names for Elpis.

This also makes me question how involved localizers are in lore creation. If they truly were so involved, then how come there are some glaring mistakes or inconsistencies with the original JP version? I don't think of deviating from the source material as "lore crafting." More like lore butchering.

The Localization Lead noted that this is a common sentiment, and she dedicated a lot of a dev panel to disagreeing with you on this point. Since you are so interested in this, you will most likely want to watch this the whole way through (from the 2024 Vegas Fanfest) - it's like an hour segment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YozopuVW8Mo&t=24529s

[Espon]

Dawntrail's story and lore fails no matter what language you're listening to.

Anyways, localizing a game is more than just translating a language from one to another. For starters, Japanese and English are very different languages, both in sentence structure and how tone is presented. Japanese is very direct and based around respect and the relation between who is speaking to who. English is more casual but flowery, using many adjectives and adverbs where it's not really necessary. Japanese jokes also rely heavily on puns, and puns do not translate at all into other languages.

Cultures also have be taken into consideration, as what one culture might find acceptable could be deemed very offensive in another. A very good example is Haurchefant: In English, he's a friendly man that looks up to the Warrior of Light and is one of the first people of Ishgard to give outsiders a chance. In Japanese, he's extremely flirty and makes it very clear he wants to get into the Warrior of Light's pants, regardless of their gender. A common trope in Japan, but that doesn't go over too well in the west, particularly of those that have been victims of SA.

[Dikatis]

But yeah -- has it been confirmed that the fairies they/themming themselves was definite attempt to bring in some non-binary visibility?
If so, yikes at that intent.

The Japanese text doesn't use gendered pronouns for the fae because it doesn't need to. You can also look at literally everything else in the game for more LGBT representation. Mitron and Loghrif were in a relationship in the Unsundered World when they were both women. Sadu has plenty of female admirers and explicitly prefers the company of women to men. Alisaie and Alphinaud have male and female advisers. There's literally everything coded into the Eden raids. The Loporrits consider the notion of gender quaint and can identify as male, female, or anything in-between based on what's currently interesting, hence many of them using they/them pronouns along with he/she.

Heck, even in ARR, there's a male Lalafell dreaming of being held in Raubahn's arms. Haurchefant is explicitly attracted to the Warrior of Light regardless of gender and the dragons freely choose their sex since they can reproduce sexually or asexually. Then in Kugane there's a sidequest where a man falls in love with another man playing a female part on stage. When the actor reveals that he's a man beneath the costume, the admirer is not repulsed at all.

There's no reason to believe the fae aren't genderless/non-binary, especially since it doesn't make sense for them to have biological sex as they don't reproduce, nor is it out of place in the rest of the game.

[Iscah]

Localizers injecting their politics does worry me. For example, how they made the Fae non-binary in ShB.

Regardless of what positivity or negativity you associate with the term "non-binary", it's not the right term to be using for the fae. They are simply genderless. There's no binary for them to not-be.