Black knighting on the forums

[MikkoAkure]

I like how actual critique and suggestions, and in the case of the BLM changes, desperate cries to NOT DO THIS... are portrayed as "black knighting". How ridiculous.

I don't think anyone here said anything about BLM. This forum has been a cesspit since long before the live letter.

When you have a probable gil seller with a dozen accounts constantly making threads trying to convince people to quit, things aren't exactly normal. If someone is being extremely over-the-top about hating the game, check their character and it's probably 1 DoW/DoM leveled to 100 and all DoH/DoL leveled to 100. Not sure why people still take it seriously but internet's gonna internet.

There's normal critique and suggestions and then there's melodramatic threads and trolling.

[Auro_Seldaris]

I don't think anyone here said anything about BLM. This forum has been a cesspit since long before the live letter.

When you have a probable gil seller with a dozen accounts constantly making threads trying to convince people to quit, things aren't exactly normal. If someone is being extremely over-the-top about hating the game, check their character and it's probably 1 DoW/DoM leveled to 100 and all DoH/DoL leveled to 100. Not sure why people still take it seriously but internet's gonna internet.

There's normal critique and suggestions and then there's melodramatic threads and trolling.

I agree the forum is a cesspit. That's why, despite playing since HW, I only started actually posting here recently. I generally made a habit of ignoring the forums and staying away from posting, only really lurking on lore threads and whatnot. I'm only posting here to make my feelings about the story and job design known.

My statement is less about who wrote a post, and more about the general sentiments and thoughts about the game. I don't know why you attempted to deflect that with specifics about them, I couldn't care less about that.

My point still stands. Valid criticism is portrayed as "Doomposting" and now "Black Knighting". And all that is, is a means to invalidate the criticism by committing an ad hominem attack. Really what's happening is that it's now ok to talk badly about the game on places like the subreddits and Twitter, so the white knights are just defending the last bastion.

[Bad_Luck]

Nah, the people complaining about white knights don’t possess awareness.

[brinn12]

There is no line to cross between black knighting and realism anymore. The so called rage bait threads are filled with truths.

[Hallarem]

I agree, lets stop criticizing the multi-yen company and just wait patiently for them to pick up on our brainwave telepathy to fix the game or make it better.

If you want 0 critique and only happy joy joy feelings about FFXIV, the main reddit is your spot. You can go upvote the 200 000th repost of either Haurchefant dying and the player crying. Or the "welcome to shadowbringers" O_O moment.

[Wasselin]

I think Black Knight is an appropriate term. At this point, I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s nothing the devs could do to satisfy the people who claim the game is ‘dead.’ They seem to latch onto any bit of news they can twist into something negative, almost as if they’re actively rooting for the servers to shut down. It feels less like constructive criticism and more like a personal vendetta against the devs, willing them to fail.

Don’t get me wrong—I’m not against critique. But when the goalposts keep shifting, or the demands become increasingly unrealistic, it’s hard to believe these critiques come from a genuine desire to see the game improve. It makes me wonder about the psychology behind it. Are they players who want to quit but feel ‘stuck,’ so they hope the game fails to force themselves out? Or are they just deeply unhappy people who want to spread that misery to others? It’s hard to say, but it’s exhausting to watch.

[Hallarem]

I think Black Knight is an appropriate term. At this point, I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s nothing the devs could do to satisfy the people who claim the game is ‘dead.’ They seem to latch onto any bit of news they can twist into something negative, almost as if they’re actively rooting for the servers to shut down. It feels less like constructive criticism and more like a personal vendetta against the devs, willing them to fail.

Don’t get me wrong—I’m not against critique. But when the goalposts keep shifting, or the demands become increasingly unrealistic, it’s hard to believe these critiques come from a genuine desire to see the game improve. It makes me wonder about the psychology behind it. Are they players who want to quit but feel ‘stuck,’ so they hope the game fails to force themselves out? Or are they just deeply unhappy people who want to spread that misery to others? It’s hard to say, but it’s exhausting to watch.

Thats a communication issue. Because the devs do NOT communicate what IS and what ISNT possible. The whole "Ooooh, no datamining and everything is a surprise" was cute at the start, but you REALLY need to communicate with your playerbase so they have .. yes, SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO.

We have no info on hats, we have no info on graphical updates, we have no info on what their focuses will be for this "10-year" plan? Where are the ROADMAPS, hell even INDIE DEVELOPERS have roadmaps they publish every now and then? SE is lacking a huge amount of transparency, this secretive veil makes the playerbase confused not excited. It even makes some think that they have NOTHING being planned and are just winging it till the next expansion according to the formula or whatever they knit together just to keep our subs going.

Why people stay could be a mixture of anything from "Sunk cost fallacy" due to us building communities, having friends in the game, achieving a lot over the years, having a house you want to keep. If its exhausting to watch then don't watch it or the threads that are full of critique? Critique improves the build. If you see a shakey pillar in the foundation of a house, you go at them until they fix it or that house might crumble down in the future.
There's been plenty of constructive criticism, but they haven't picked up on it and just go their own way. Nobody asked for Viper changes, nobody asked for these BLM changes.
So until they give us some transparency, I'm afraid it will keep getting more and more toxic.

[brinn12]

"there’s nothing the devs could do to satisfy the people who claim the game is ‘dead’"

To say that they cannot be satisfied implies the developers have been trying to satisfy them. By doing what, exactly? Telling people to play Monster Hunter, when they ask for content? Removing BLM's timers? Increasing patch cycles? Keeping the same formula after 10 years?

[Wasselin]

"there’s nothing the devs could do to satisfy the people who claim the game is ‘dead’"

To say that they cannot be satisfied implies the developers have been trying to satisfy them. By doing what, exactly? Telling people to play Monster Hunter, when they ask for content? Removing BLM's timers? Increasing patch cycles? Keeping the same formula after 10 years?

I’ll give you an example: Throughout Endwalker, one of the most common complaints was the lack of a field operation. People brought it up constantly. Then, when the devs announced that a field operation would be coming in Dawntrail, the complaints didn’t stop—they just shifted. Now, people are upset that it’s not coming soon enough.

To me, this starts to feel unrealistic. If the devs could have released a field operation in Endwalker without compromising other content, I’m sure they would have. But these things take time, resources, and careful planning. Now, instead of acknowledging that, the demand has simply changed to ‘we want it sooner.’

This is just one example of many. If people truly want to be constructive, I wish they’d take a step back and try to be a little more reasonable—or at least acknowledge that the devs aren’t personally out to get them. It’s okay to critique, but by grounding those critiques in reality and recognize the effort that goes into creating the content we enjoy I think that would improve communication for everyone and not harm the game by creating an echo chamber of ever escalating negativity.

[ovIm]

I’ll give you an example: Throughout Endwalker, one of the most common complaints was the lack of a field operation. People brought it up constantly. Then, when the devs announced that a field operation would be coming in Dawntrail, the complaints didn’t stop—they just shifted. Now, people are upset that it’s not coming soon enough.

To me, this starts to feel unrealistic. If the devs could have released a field operation in Endwalker without compromising other content, I’m sure they would have. But these things take time, resources, and careful planning. Now, instead of acknowledging that, the demand has simply changed to ‘we want it sooner.’

Then you have misunderstood the criticisms, i fear. People asked for a moderately grinding bit of content early in the expansion (something that is kind of an MMORPG staple), which the field operations is. Something they can spend hours in, if they want to, to work towards any kind of goal.
Now the first bit of content that allows you to spend a lot of time in (and that is not a room with boss raid) comes a year after the expansion release, which is definitely too late for a content that is designed to be played over a longer period of time. Non-Raid players will have had 11 months of no real repeatable battle content at this point. 11 months is a damn long time.

If CS3 had released something else in the meantime, like for example a Deep Dungeon in 7.1, or a smaller relic step, then those kinds of complaints would have been somewhat mitigated. Its not that the players want "field operations" sooner, they want "something to play" sooner than a year after expansion release.
Hope that makes sense!