Square Enix, Are we really just pretending that WoW isn't running laps around you?

[Gyson]

I'm not telling you to conform, I'm saying that nobody is going to keel over and be quiet just cause you say so; The days of blind faith and YoshiP worship are gone.

You can say whatever you want, But it's going to be ignored if it's an L take like "Yoship Good!!!!! Cause he did (X) 10 years ago!" No longer an argument.

Yeah, again I didn't say that, nor did I ever suggest anyone should be given a free pass. I'm still waiting on you to point to precisely where you think I did. I also never told anyone to be quiet.

Perhaps you're referring to the comment where I said: "I played the disaster that was the original FFXIV, before Yoshi-P stepped in and we eventually got ARR. To suggest Yoshi-P has taken the game downhill from where it started is ridiculous." That is a far cry from the way you're interpreting it. The first sentence is a fact. The second sentence is a personal opinion. Now, if you're actually trying to suggest that FFXIV is currently worse than it was before its ARR reboot, then we're definitely disagreeing and I'm going to call that opinion ridiculous, because (my opinion) the original FFXIV was horrible.

Not that I think any blind worship is healthy, but I love when people speak in absolutes. "The days of blah blah are over! Because they're over for me! So they must be over for everyone else, because we are all a hive mind!" Things aren't that black and white. I would hope that nobody is "blindly worshiping", but do keep in mind that opinions differ outside of your echo chamber.

[AshtonCrowe]

������

Good day gyson

[Nadda]

(rest was good too)
I would hope that nobody is "blindly worshiping", but do keep in mind that opinions differ outside of your echo chamber.

Well said Gyson.

We can all agree blind faith is no good.
We can all agree things can improve.

It's sad that such things need to be frontloaded but it is required simply inorder not to be dismissed outright. Which is a tragic dissolve in productive discourse when the differences are minor.
The difference is the confidence in things being able to improve.
To lack confidence in the direction in the game, is turning in blind faith for bad faith.

I also agree that this notion that people are wrong to maintain a positive outlook of the future while maintaining a critical lens.
That the only correct approach is vitriol, apathy, pessimism, disillusionment, and demoralization.

I too am sick of being told I'm a part of a Cult for not thinking the same way as people who lack confidence in the Game. That would be conforming my thoughts to capitulate that which I do not think for myself is true.
Lacking confidence in the game's future is just as much a leap of faith (or pessimism) as blindly trusting it. Opposites of the same coin of faulty logic.

It's also not disregarding an opinion to challenge an opinion. We're all critical-minded, but the most negative voices among us want to dismiss those challenges as purely Blind Faith.

All forums are an arena of ideas; the prevailing thoughts, which are wholly negative, must be scrutinized just as well as they can be validated. For there is truth in criticism. There are also boundaries to how far you can take things through a single perspective.

That is all that is being challenged here. Not the merits or notion of critique. Both negative and positive outlooks are justifiable when looked at from a larger perspective, not a narrower one.

And so far on these forums, the ones who are willing to concede and adopt the most pragmatic thoughts (acknowledging critique) have been the positive thinkers.
Whereas, the Negative thinkers are not being considerate in adopting other perspectives. Only by hearing both sides can you gain a fuller picture. This is logical and balanced.

[AshtonCrowe]

@Nadda

Big shock the people who used to shut people down don't like when they get ignored and community is against them suddenly, Then try to band together and act oppressed.

I'd feel bad but for years if you said anything negative you got mobbed so my sympathy is gone for it, It is cult behavior Nadda. Before i started typing he was trying to gaslight the other user with the cat girl pfp. Y'all don't like when people shut you down, The days of the XIV Echo Chamber are gone.

Adapt, Or dont . . Either way the days of silence when any opposition is presented is gone.

You don't get to play victim when you lose arguments or sentiment changes from blind faith to "Wait, Lets actually use our brains and stop auto consuming" Especially after y'all would keep attacking people long after the argument in the past so they don't DARE to speak up again.

Despite what you typed there can almost guarantee a year ago if i posted this you would've been one of the first to mock it but now you're too scared to quote my original post cause you know people will fight back, You're seeing it enmasse on this forum people are tired being told to "Be quiet" "YoshiP DID (X)" "You weren't around during ARRR!!!!!!!!!!"

We are done being quiet

Reason for @? I was too lazy to edit your reply.

[Nadda]

Well @Ashton.

That sounds more vindictive than productive, and I think that's where your critiques fall short. There's a reasonable framing for WoW's merits what they are doing currently and how those things can be brought over to FF14.

I'm not this 'yall' or this other group of people. We're not these caricatures you conjure that you can easily dismantle in your imagination.

Same with alluding if not outright saying Yoshi-P and the Dev team are incompetent.

This is where you get things wrong.

Tell me, is your point of view so weak that you need to conjure people as handicapped, drooling fools first in order to defeat them?

Is that the kind of perspective you want to carry?

If others were harsh to you, dismissed you, belittled you... You should rise above those who put you down, not lower yourself to that level.
However, I'm curious about what point they stopped being imposing adversaries and started becoming so easy to dismiss.

When people feel unsatisfied, they should voice that dissatisfaction.
Again, I'll say this: It is not the merits or notion of critique, being challenged here.

There is a reasonable framing for this, one where you can extend a notion of confidence and support for the game while being fair in criticism.
A collaboration of ideas where one presents a concept and then others build on that concept in a structured order.

There are some among us, even in this thread, who genuinely want to see the game fail. Do you really want to be part of that number? Because if there is a Cult, that's Death Cult thinking.
I said before, Lacking confidence in the game's future is just as much a leap of faith (or pessimism) as blindly trusting it. Opposites of the same coin of faulty logic.

Open yourself up to reason.
See the Good and the Bad. Understand that the people working on this game are intelligent. Mutual respect is essential for getting a point across.
Collaborate with those who disagree, heed the words of those who challenge you. You get further with the Olive Branch than the Sword—people respond to reason, not hostility.

You keep saying people were silenced in the past, but nobody here told you to be quiet. You're using past grievances to justify shutting down others, it's trading one echo chamber (from your view) for another.

[AshtonCrowe]

Well @Ashton.

That sounds more vindictive than productive, and I think that's where your critiques fall short. There's a reasonable framing for WoW's merits what they are doing currently and how those things can be brought over to FF14.

I'm not this 'yall' or this other group of people. We're not these caricatures you conjure that you can easily dismantle in your imagination.

Same with alluding if not outright saying Yoshi-P and the Dev team are incompetent.

This is where you get things wrong.

Tell me, is your point of view so weak that you need to conjure people as handicapped, drooling fools first in order to defeat them?

Is that the kind of perspective you want to carry?

If others were harsh to you, dismissed you, belittled you... You should rise above those who put you down, not lower yourself to that level.
However, I'm curious about what point they stopped being imposing adversaries and started becoming so easy to dismiss.

When people feel unsatisfied, they should voice that dissatisfaction.
Again, I'll say this: It is not the merits or notion of critique, being challenged here.

There is a reasonable framing for this, one where you can extend a notion of confidence and support for the game while being fair in criticism.
A collaboration of ideas where one presents a concept and then others build on that concept in a structured order.

There are some among us, even in this thread, who genuinely want to see the game fail. Do you really want to be part of that number? Because if there is a Cult, that's Death Cult thinking.
I said before, Lacking confidence in the game's future is just as much a leap of faith (or pessimism) as blindly trusting it. Opposites of the same coin of faulty logic.

Open yourself up to reason.
See the Good and the Bad. Understand that the people working on this game are intelligent. Mutual respect is essential for getting a point across.
Collaborate with those who disagree, heed the words of those who challenge you. You get further with the Olive Branch than the Sword—people respond to reason, not hostility.

You keep saying people were silenced in the past, but nobody here told you to be quiet. You're using past grievances to justify shutting down others, it's trading one echo chamber (from your view) for another.

You don't read what you type do you preacher?

Taking extra notes from your priest & how he speaks?

[Gyson]

@Nadda

Big shock the people who used to shut people down don't like when they get ignored and community is against them suddenly, Then try to band together and act oppressed.

I'd feel bad but for years if you said anything negative you got mobbed so my sympathy is gone for it, It is cult behavior Nadda. Before i started typing he was trying to gaslight the other user with the cat girl pfp. Y'all don't like when people shut you down, The days of the XIV Echo Chamber are gone.

Adapt, Or dont . . Either way the days of silence when any opposition is presented is gone.

You don't get to play victim when you lose arguments or sentiment changes from blind faith to "Wait, Lets actually use our brains and stop auto consuming" Especially after y'all would keep attacking people long after the argument in the past so they don't DARE to speak up again.

Despite what you typed there can almost guarantee a year ago if i posted this you would've been one of the first to mock it but now you're too scared to quote my original post cause you know people will fight back, You're seeing it enmasse on this forum people are tired being told to "Be quiet" "YoshiP DID (X)" "You weren't around during ARRR!!!!!!!!!!"

We are done being quiet

Reason for @? I was too lazy to edit your reply.

You sound like an Uncle at Thanksgiving dinner who has gone too far down the rabbit hole, and it's not helping your arguments any. Seriously, what in the world are you going on about?

This forum has always been filled with both criticism and praise for this game. "We are done being quiet"..? Who is "we"? And when has this forum ever been quiet? Who are all these people attacking you for having an opinion? Are they in the room with you right now? Let's be clear about something: someone disagreeing with your opinion is not the same as being attacked. And a disagreement on a topic is not the same as receiving push-back because your delivery is overly aggressive.

I can't say I've seen much of a change in the forum goer's behavior in the last ten years. As it has always been, most of the topics here are complaints, because people are more likely to be vocal when they're upset about something. Nobody who's having fun playing a game stops to think "you know what, I think I'll pause this fun for a moment to head on over to the forum and post a message letting everyone know how wonderful things are". If you are misery looking for company a forum is a great place to find some. So, I find this notion that the forums have long been the oppressor of critics to be laughable.

Nobody is shutting anyone down. You have always been free to come here and post an opinion that other people are free to agree or disagree with. But your delivery leaves a lot to be desired. If someone suggests they're enjoying the game you essentially paint them as mindless sheep, as if it's impossible for someone to be legitimately having fun with a game that you aren't enjoying. It can't simply be a difference in tastes, they must be blind, mindless auto-consumers! And then you wonder why you get push-back.

There is no doubt that FFXIV was enjoying a surge in popularity a few years ago as WoW and Blizzard were having a series of self-inflicted disasters. Frustrated WoW players were looking for somewhere to go and content creators from every corner of the internet saw an opportunity to jump on the FFXIV hype train and branch out to grow their audience. And those audiences followed them here to play with them. But it's unrealistic to assume that hype (especially on the streamer's end, which was primarily motivated by profit) was going to last forever. And for some people the hype and popularity was their main reason for being here. That's not necessarily a sign that a game has gone downhill, it just means that people have moved on - not surprising with a game design that encourages players to enjoy their time here and elsewhere. It's actually one of the things I love about this MMO, versus other MMOs which punish you for not being present every single day.

I was able to play some of the new update last night and I enjoyed it. I glanced at chat and noticed an argument about Wuk Lamat because that's apparently the cool thing to hate on these days. Turned my attention away from chat and went back to enjoying the update with my friends. I don't know what you want me to say.. I'm not going to dump on a game that brings me enjoyment, but you're acting like we can't share our opinions unless we're willing to seal-clap to your rant.

[Volgia]

You don't read what you type do you preacher?

Taking extra notes from your priest & how he speaks?

I really enjoy the way you phrase stuff, it's very deranged.

[Doki]

[AshtonCrowe]

Sir, This is a wendies.