I want to play jobs because I like them.

[GumshoeJump]

I don't want to play a job just because I don't hate it.

I think that makes for a really boring job.

I want to play jobs because they have things I like in them.

I'm not going to want to play BLM just because it stops playing like BLM. If anything I will be less inclined to play it, because I could be playing anything else. When I want to play BLM, it's because I want to engage its distinct and unique qualities. I am profoundly bad at BLM, but that's okay; it's not a job made for me. There are people in love with long cast times on powerful spells and figuring out how to keep optimal uptime on multiple timers. Their joy makes my experience better. Taking that away from them to maybe vaguely appeal to people who aren't already playing BLM is just going to result in No One playing Black Mage.

I mained SMN in Stormblood and Shadowbringers; I liked that it had a pet, and that it was a caster. I liked the DoT management, and the way my carbuncle/egi worked in my rotation. When it stopped having a pet (don't lie to me, my beloved dog is a vestigial organ at this point), and it stopped playing like a caster? I stopped playing it. It no longer had anything in it that I liked.

I liked Endwalker MNK because it had a freeform priority based rotation that was formed around upkeep of a buff and a dot. I stopped playing it when it became a rigid game of simon says with neither of those upkeep mechanics. It no longer had anything I liked.

I played VPR because I liked the debuff that asked me to manage what line of my rotation I did to balance potency output with timer upkeep. When that got replaced with a personal buff that was braindead to upkeep on two combo lines that did the precise same potency, I stopped playing it.

I know taking things out that people didn't like worked really well with SMN, but it's not going to work like that again. SMN was a unique case of an Extremely niche job that got turned into a highly approachable, easy to level job in a niche subcategory that everyone needed but not a lot of people played.

Taking the BLM out of the BLM isn't going to make PCT mains and everyone else finally play BLM. You've already tried this two times! It's not going to suddenly work if you triple down-- you're just making the BLM mains cancel their subs.

I don't want to play a job with nothing objectionable in it. I WANT to play a job with a weird niche mechanic or gameplay style that happens to appeal to me. I still like BRD because it has DoT upkeep, procs to react to-- and song management. At the rate we're going I don't trust 8.0 to change any job for the better. At this rate I expect BRD to suddenly get reworked out from under me just like SMN, MNK and VPR were. I know it's happening several times over to BLMs.

And I'm getting real ready to cut my losses alongside them.

[User202503201232]

By trying to cater to everyone, they cater to none.

[Astronema]

I want to play a dps astrologian. Maybe someday we will get dps talent trees...

[Voryn]

I know taking things out that people didn't like worked really well with SMN, but it's not going to work like that again. SMN was a unique case of an Extremely niche job that got turned into a highly approachable, easy to level job in a niche subcategory that everyone needed but not a lot of people played.

Taking the BLM out of the BLM isn't going to make PCT mains and everyone else finally play BLM.

If Black Mage becomes easy to play then the people scared of the “hard” job will pick it more. Lots of new players will pick Summoner because they heard it’s the easiest.

If Black Mage it becomes both stronger and easier than Picto then raiders who are trying for week 1 Savage clears or on-patch Ultimate clears will start picking it more. Lots of raiders opt for Summoner in the level 70 Ultimate raids because of it being really strong at that level and also easy.

And then we can celebrate that Black Mage became “better” because its playrate got higher lol.

I don't want to play a job with nothing objectionable in it… At the rate we're going I don't trust 8.0 to change any job for the better.

It sucks how often it feels like the devs’ intention is to try removing any possible reason someone might be intimidated by them. They said they removed the damaging gap closers from DRK and GNB to “reduce the number of inputs,” but why? So that people who prefer WAR and PLD will play start playing them? It feels the same as when AST lost its randomness.

Can’t wait until 8.0 where every job has something interesting removed, and their shiny new thing is just another button to press in the burst window. Gotta make sure to enjoy your favourite job before it gets too many changes “to improve ease of use.”

[Saraide]

They'll do the usual of just buffing its damage output for the expansions to levels that nobody interested in clearing quickly can ignore it and then when next expansion rolls around it will decline into a sad hollow shell because some other job will get the high damage treatment. And they will continue to lie saying 'this time will for sure be the last time we lobotimze jobs, trust us bro'.

[Khryseis_Astra]

I want to play a dps astrologian. Maybe someday we will get dps talent trees...

That would probably be my dream job! Starry DPS! I get a little bit of that with SMN and PCT though. lol

I actually liked the SMN rework. It has a nice flow to its rotation. But they didn’t finish it! Like a lot of people, I thought, oh great, they made it easier to add more summons with the gems! Surely Levi, Shiva and Ramuh will be incoming! But instead we got another Demi, and it’s cool and all, but I want the three other elements at least, to feel like there’s some more variety in between the Demis, and allow for some choice of which gem set to use at any given time. It’s a good framework, and has the potential to be both easy to pick up and offer some complexity for those that want to optimize it. I know they have to leave room to keep adding new flashy skills down the line, but it just feels unfinished. Whereas PCT actually feels like a complete job, with room for more additions via the canvases.

I’m really curious to see what they have planned for post-100 jobs… they say they’ve already decided on what the system will be, but no hints so far.

[Supersnow845]

That would probably be my dream job! Starry DPS! I get a little bit of that with SMN and PCT though. lol

I actually liked the SMN rework. It has a nice flow to its rotation. But they didn’t finish it! Like a lot of people, I thought, oh great, they made it easier to add more summons with the gems! Surely Levi, Shiva and Ramuh will be incoming! But instead we got another Demi, and it’s cool and all, but I want the three other elements at least, to feel like there’s some more variety in between the Demis, and allow for some choice of which gem set to use at any given time. It’s a good framework, and has the potential to be both easy to pick up and offer some complexity for those that want to optimize it. I know they have to leave room to keep adding new flashy skills down the line, but it just feels unfinished. Whereas PCT actually feels like a complete job, with room for more additions via the canvases.

I’m really curious to see what they have planned for post-100 jobs… they say they’ve already decided on what the system will be, but no hints so far.

Genuinely what does the other three primals add. They can’t even finish the first three primals. Like would “blue Garuda” or “purple irfrit” really fix peoples opinions on SMN

they can’t even figure out how to make the current design somewhat engaging, how does doing “more” of that help

[Rithy255]

Thing with the Black mage changes what job can you point at now that is "hard to master"

Black mage was the last remaining job that was difficult to be really good at (despite bad changes in 7.0), why can't we have even one job that isn't hyper casual... I'm not much of a "hardcore" player myself but I enjoyed Black mage in content because it felt like a actual caster with its long cast times, now fire 4 is bassically healer gcd speed... I don't want to play a hyper mobile mage.

I just am so tired of these balance changes.

[GumshoeJump]

I love and respect all of you guys who liked the SMN rework-- you are my mortal enemies, but that's okay. We don't have to like the same things.

I just want to point out that I brought it up because it's possibly the prime example of a whole chunk of the playerbase essentially getting thrown in the trash in favour of getting a job a larger playerbase. I still haven't found a job that brings me the same amount of joy that SMN did in StB and ShB. I used to play all the time just for the sake of playing that job. Now I barely play at all outside of raid.

Shadowbringers SMN was an incredibly well designed job. Its phases all played into each other and it mattered for the next phase of your rotation if you did the last one correctly. All of its mechanics played together one way or another. My egi gave me Ruin IV procs to make my bahamut phase play smoother. While the DoT timers were well aligned to both be easy to manage during demi phases and engaging during egi phases. Since Bahamut/Phoenix reset my tri-disaster which refreshed them both for free, while I had to manually refresh them during my Egi phase. Phoenix felt good because its procs were independent and felt fresh and rewarding for doing my last phases well. All while my DoTs and aetherflow served as a metronomic through line. Figuring it out made me feel clever! It was a fun job! The kit let me have a magic dog! It was cool! It made me happy.

New SMN just does not compare even a little. You're barely even summoning things anymore, it's just VFX that happens to include a boss model. My carbuncle/egi is functionally the same as my minion.

But my point is that getting essentially thrown under the bus felt Bad. It has felt bad every single time they've done it. They keep doing it to BLM and any job that might seem even a little bit intimidating. And the thing that really puts salt in the wound is that unlike SMN-- it's not successful! Everyone who isn't already attached to a job is playing the jobs that are numerically superior because that's the only thing that matters to them. But the devs seem to think that the problem is that they just haven't parred the jobs down Enough. So BLM is about to be on its third strip down since Dawntrail released. For the sake of people who just don't want to play Black Mage.

I don't think job changes should be based on the opinions of people who don't play the job! All it does is strip jobs of their unique qualities. Whether those qualities be their difficulty or the fantasy of the job.

I think it's REALLY BAD actually when one portion of the playerbase gets something they like taken away in favour of giving it to a different portion of the playerbase who don't even want it. I think the only thing it's going to ever accomplish is making people deeply and severely resentful.

[Red-thunder]

I think it's REALLY BAD actually when one portion of the playerbase gets something they like taken away in favour of giving it to a different portion of the playerbase who don't even want it. I think the only thing it's going to ever accomplish is making people deeply and severely resentful.

The resentment only gets boosted when this game's very community tells you to shut up and mocks you for lamenting and being upset at the dev team gutting your favorite niche.