They are gutting Black Mage even more in 7.2

[Rithy255]

If I didn't have commitments for savage I would unsub, can't leave the group hanging this close to the tier so I guess I'll have to wait until everyone is BiS to leave. The devs clearly don't want me to enjoy or play the game since they keep removing things I enjoy like ShB/early EW PLD and EW BLM

As someone who loved both early EW PLD and BLM the most out of any other jobs (like I can't stress how much I enjoyed these too jobs) it just feels like theirs actually nothing left.

What's the point of investing my time to learn/master a job when you can pick up any job and already master it in under 2 hours.

[Jeeqbit]

I'm miles away from being optimized/best player. But I am addicted to progressively improve on BLM self-taught by combining

• duties repetitions (+muscle memory)
• planning ahead
• active reaction/reflexes
• multitasking
• and constant strategy/rotation adaptation.

I put in bold the things that will still matter, but they are within the context that fights in this game are scripted. Bosses mostly do mechanics in the same order every time, so once you are used to the order, there isn't much in the way of reflexes, multitasking or adaption unless one of your party members does something wrong.

This gives me unique feelings of involvement on BLM, so i'm really concerned to know if this job will still be as fun to play/learn as I enjoyed until now, with 7.2 changes

No, it won't, and it was already made less complicated in recent years:

• An ability was added to keep up Ice phase out of battle which you had to spam, then it changed to be available at lower levels, then it changed to lock out of battles so you don't need to spam it.
• The AoE combo became more consistent and able to switch between AoE and ST easier.
• It highlights what to press next (did not used to, which made it one of the hardest to figure out rotations).
• They made Enochian upkeep a trait years ago, and are now doing so with the timer, which is the thing that you're prevent from expiring - so it makes it as easy as Red Mage, Summoner and Pictomancer. This is about the last job that had such a mechanic (most jobs used to have this).
• The cast times are being reduced to allow for movement, making it as easy as Red Mage or Pictomancer.
• More things have been made instant cast in the most recent expansion, and we'd already got Triplecast years ago.

Point is, they have made jobs easier and less stressful over the years, and Black Mage has been the last bastion of that, until the 25th.

[aereniil]

I put in bold the things that will still matter, but they are within the context that fights in this game are scripted. Bosses mostly do mechanics in the same order every time, so once you are used to the order, there isn't much in the way of reflexes, multitasking or adaption unless one of your party members does something wrong.

No, it won't, and it was already made less complicated in recent years:

• An ability was added to keep up Ice phase out of battle which you had to spam, then it changed to be available at lower levels, then it changed to lock out of battles so you don't need to spam it.
• The AoE combo became more consistent and able to switch between AoE and ST easier.
• It highlights what to press next (did not used to, which made it one of the hardest to figure out rotations).
• They made Enochian upkeep a trait years ago, and are now doing so with the timer, which is the thing that you're prevent from expiring - so it makes it as easy as Red Mage, Summoner and Pictomancer. This is about the last job that had such a mechanic (most jobs used to have this).
• The cast times are being reduced to allow for movement, making it as easy as Red Mage or Pictomancer.
• More things have been made instant cast in the most recent expansion, and we'd already got Triplecast years ago.

Point is, they have made jobs easier and less stressful over the years, and Black Mage has been the last bastion of that, until the 25th.

Thanks for the explanation. Then, unfortunately, we may expect much less and less enjoyable challenges on progressing/clearing through BLM. I like my RDM and SMN too, but playing BLM kinda got positively different...

[ElysiumDragon]

It's not like Black Mage actually brings anything to a group TBH.

No barrier, no shield, no heals, no party-wide buff, no mobility (muh turret caster), and it's not like the DPS checks are pre-nerf P8S levels of tight, so your damage is basically redundant too.

And yet somehow, not only do you insist on choosing the job with zero group utility, you force the rest of a group to adjust around your very existence. At least the Samurai and Viper mains can move while doing a burst.

Your average Black Mage in modern encounter design is practically dead weight compared to the other casters. Red Mage has 50 raises, a damage buff, and a barrier. Summoner's a glorified Phys Ranged with a raise, a heal, and a damage buff, and the Picto's doing solid damage on it's own, let alone the kitchen sink of a kit it brings.

[Arohk]

Removing the Enochian timer is the best thing happening to this job, it feels completly atrocious to play in lower levels, before you get tripe cast to move around.

[Valence]

Most people were okay with the 5.0 Machinist rework because back in Shadowbringers everyone still thought the devs had a clue where they were going with their job designs.
A few years later, Machinist's 5.0 design actually going nowhere but instead even more terrible design decisions across the board, and we are finally wise enough to see that no, they do not have a clue.

I don't know why they were okay with it. ShB MCH literally murdered every part of the core identity of the job, which is exactly what has been criticized for SMN 2.0, and now for BLM as well. It's literally the same thing. They made the job brainless and bland, removed all skill expression, and demolished every facet of its identity. People should be as mad about it than they are about SMN 2.0 or BLM right now.

List of casualties of its core identity:
- Ammo and rng procs
- Highest damage burst in the game, a highs and lows damage profile.
- The pet (like for SMN)
- A non-fixed burst that required skill to pull and to identify patterns

[Jeeqbit]

Removing the Enochian timer is the best thing happening to this job, it feels completly atrocious to play in lower levels, before you get tripe cast to move around.

Not had that issue at those lower levels, given the thunder and fire 3 procs and swiftcast. Given how old the content is, we've had 10 years to "plan" around it.

[Rithy255]

It's not like Black Mage actually brings anything to a group TBH.

No barrier, no shield, no heals, no party-wide buff, no mobility (muh turret caster), and it's not like the DPS checks are pre-nerf P8S levels of tight, so your damage is basically redundant too.

And yet somehow, not only do you insist on choosing the job with zero group utility, you force the rest of a group to adjust around your very existence. At least the Samurai and Viper mains can move while doing a burst.

Your average Black Mage in modern encounter design is practically dead weight compared to the other casters. Red Mage has 50 raises, a damage buff, and a barrier. Summoner's a glorified Phys Ranged with a raise, a heal, and a damage buff, and the Picto's doing solid damage on it's own, let alone the kitchen sink of a kit it brings.

The solution isn't to get rid of a jobs weaknesses its to buff it's strength, BLM was hard to master and was designed around having the highest damage. What's the point of having a job system if they are all the same but different animations.

This is meant to be a MMORPG, But theirs no job system (the trinity system doesn't even make sense), so i can barely call it a RPG, theirs hardly any social aspects either so it's a stretch to even call this game a MMO anymore.

[Doopliss]

I don't know why they were okay with it. ShB MCH literally murdered every part of the core identity of the job, which is exactly what has been criticized for SMN 2.0, and now for BLM as well. It's literally the same thing. They made the job brainless and bland, removed all skill expression, and demolished every facet of its identity. People should be as mad about it than they are about SMN 2.0 or BLM right now.

List of casualties of its core identity:
- Ammo and rng procs
- Highest damage burst in the game, a highs and lows damage profile.
- The pet (like for SMN)
- A non-fixed burst that required skill to pull and to identify patterns

This is like the only thread I've ever seen with people pointing this out and it drives me crazy. IMO though they haven't known what to do with MCH since Heavensward. Just like current SMN, anybody who tends to think the job is actually good thinks so because of aesthetics and being able to mindlessly move around vs suffering a whole one second (oh no) cast time, rather than any actual real gameplay feedback. It's a braindead job that's nearly as bad as SMN, but uhhh...now you have some flashier skills and bigger machines and robots. Cool.

My extremely unpopular opinion is that I wish MCH could have kept its entire identity from HW, tiny cast time and all. That would require it having an entirely different style of play from the other two phys. ranged jobs, though, and they clearly can't have that. They continue to self-implode whenever players dare to develop varying rotations within a single job.

[Arohk]

Not had that issue at those lower levels, given the thunder and fire 3 procs and swiftcast. Given how old the content is, we've had 10 years to "plan" around it.

^what if you dont play the game for 10 years?