PCT PVP

[SweetPete]

Hello,

So since patch 7.1 the devs have been buffing and trying to adjust pictomancer to make it a solid pick but it seems no matter what they do the job is barely played in ranked/casual pvp and since the current patch 7.18 the devs said they have the lowest win rate still. So my question to my fellow PCT players in pvp or just pvp players in general, what more can the devs do to the job to increase it's win rate and make it a solid pick? I mean I really enjoy it but just racking my brain trying to see what more they can do.

-Make black paint combo attack skills insta cast?
-Make Holy in White heal allies around the target?
-Increase the damage of Comet in Black to 16k
-Give 2 stacks of smudge?
-Make paintings insta cast?
-Make paintings rotations like MCH skills. No painting at all. it will just rotate on it's own but, can we call the job PCT at that point if we're not painting?
-Make Silence wider range?
-Make Stun wider range?
-Make Moogle Silence 12k-16k damage?
-Make Madeen Stun 12-16k damage?
-Make muses damage 10k aoe instead of 8k?
-Make the buffs/debuffs of muses aoe instead of single target?

Just some random thoughts I had in my head.
I would like to hear from others on what the devs can do to make the job better in pvp and bring the win rate up?

Thanks,
Look forward to reading the responses.

[Bureda]

-Make Silence wider range?
-Make Stun wider range?
-Make Moogle Silence 12k-16k damage?
-Make Madeen Stun 12-16k damage?

I'd like to smoke what you're smoking.

Lil bro thinks he's an American President. Trying to make things even more unfun for everyone.

There is too much Crowd Control in this game. That's why it's dead, because it's not fun.

Giving such high damage to crowd control abilities is beyond stupid which is why the balance team might just listen to your suggestion.

Keep it up!

[Sinstrel]

The win rate is low because most players of the picking the job are not very good at the job

[Loggos]

I feel like on paper the job has most of the things it needs. Offensively I'm not sure there's much to add because it might become overtuned.
In my anecdotal experience, on average my damage and kill/assist numbers are on par with other DPS (in CC) so I don't think its offensive kit is the problem.

But there are a few points that still really need improvement in my eyes:


LB: I really think this is one of the job's biggest problems. Rarely you can use it at its full potential because of the outlandish cast time/animation lock. Either let us place the LB like sage or the old scholar LB or improve the cast time/animation if the LB's area of effect has to be centered around our char.
I know dancer suffers from a similar fate but at least if a dancer manages to cast their LB they'll have some seconds to breathe while your enemies are charmed. As PCT even if you manage to cast your LB your chance of dying right afterwards and losing all of it is just very high.

If we had more control over our ult and could use it more deliberately then I think our team could play around it more strategically.
Imagine if you could actually place the choco "safe zone" on the point without dying. The utility of the LB would increase a lot I'd wager. Esp. in critical moments where you have to hold a point.
Right now I have to "throw away" the chocobo field most of the time (or at least cast it a few steps away from the point) just so I get access to starprism, basically halving the effectiveness of my LB.

White Comet: the heal takes really long to activate due to the excessive animation. If you are in a high-pressure situation you'll often die between casting it and receiving the heal. If it was heal on cast it would improve PCT's survivability a lot.
I do like your idea of being able to heal team mates! Very often I've found myself wishing exactly that. With White Comet sharing a timer with Black Comet you already trade a major source of your damage for healing if you opt for white comet. So some more party utility in the form of group heals might add value to the class. The value of the group heal can be up to debate. I can see that 9k aoe heal could be ecessive. But even 4-5k might come handy in a clutch.

Perhaps: Speed up Black Comet's animation. All in all I think BC is okay but the animation is so long, there's a big disconnect between casting it and the damage landing. On the one hand it can be used for some tactical shenanigans. But if the animation was faster you could put more pressure on enemies and increase the intensity of your combos. You can already notice those effects when you cast BC under the winged muse buff. So perhaps tweaking Black Comet's animation could lead to some overall improvements.


Lastly, I agree with Sinstrel. With the job not being very popular/meta the chance of good players picking it up and really learning its ins and outs is lower I believe. It's a kind of "quirky" and gimmicky job (which doesn't mean it's not/can't be powerful) so maybe it's not as appealing as more established and "straigt to the point" PvP jobs.
Maybe there's also the "memory" of PCT being bad before 7.1 which was heavily tied to the old hard-cast muse system. So if you combine this reputation with its unconventional playstyle good players who try it out might not really feel it and drop it again because there's still this mental link of "muses = clunky = holding the job back". Even though I'd disagree very strongly.
I think the devs did manage to remove the unecessary clunk from the job while preserving its uniqueness which is one of the few things I liked about the 7.1 update.

[SweetPete]

I'd like to smoke what you're smoking.

Lil bro thinks he's an American President. Trying to make things even more unfun for everyone.

There is too much Crowd Control in this game. That's why it's dead, because it's not fun.

Giving such high damage to crowd control abilities is beyond stupid which is why the balance team might just listen to your suggestion.

Keep it up!

Let’s be clear for a second. I never said implement these changes at all. I said these were thoughts in my head to try to make PCT more competitive that’s all. Since the devs said it has such a low win rate. Meaning there is an issue with it that players just aren’t connecting with right?

[SweetPete]

The win rate is low because most players of the picking the job are not very good at the job

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I believe that is it easy to play but a little rough to master.

[SweetPete]

I feel like on paper the job has most of the things it needs. Offensively I'm not sure there's much to add because it might become overtuned.
In my anecdotal experience, on average my damage and kill/assist numbers are on par with other DPS (in CC) so I don't think its offensive kit is the problem.

But there are a few points that still really need improvement in my eyes:

Lastly, I agree with Sinstrel. With the job not being very popular/meta the chance of good players picking it up and really learning its ins and outs is lower I believe. It's a kind of "quirky" and gimmicky job (which doesn't mean it's not/can't be powerful) so maybe it's not as appealing as more established and "straigt to the point" PvP jobs.
Maybe there's also the "memory" of PCT being bad before 7.1 which was heavily tied to the old hard-cast muse system. So if you combine this reputation with its unconventional playstyle good players who try it out might not really feel it and drop it again because there's still this mental link of "muses = clunky = holding the job back". Even though I'd disagree very strongly.
I think the devs did manage to remove the unecessary clunk from the job while preserving its uniqueness which is one of the few things I liked about the 7.1 update.

I actually agree with much of what you said. Thank you so much for typing out such a thorough response. I love the idea about holy sharing a cooldown timer with comet along with my idea of holy healing allows around the target. 7.2 is closing in. We know we’re getting more PvP updates. Let’s see if PCT gets anymore updates/changes.

[Valence]

It probably suffers from the fate of all red ranged jobs. There is almost none played seriously at high crystal rating for a reason. Add to it that it's probably one of the hardest casters and it adds up. But, to give credit where credit is due, there is one PCT on EU that is within the top 10, and mad respect for it.

I cannot agree with the comparison with contradance though. Chocobastion isn't hard countered by 80% of the LBs in existence for starters. Chocobastion requires a tenth of the considerations that Contradance does, and Contra will rarely if ever catch all the opponents so you'll keep eating damage after, and you'll be half naked because already low HP and out of purify. But this doesn't detract for the points you made that the animation may be too long, etc. I'm not enough qualified in PCT to judge on my end.

[SweetPete]

It probably suffers from the fate of all red ranged jobs. There is almost none played seriously at high crystal rating for a reason. Add to it that it's probably one of the hardest casters and it adds up. But, to give credit where credit is due, there is one PCT on EU that is within the top 10, and mad respect for it.

I cannot agree with the comparison with contradance though. Chocobastion isn't hard countered by 80% of the LBs in existence for starters. Chocobastion requires a tenth of the considerations that Contradance does, and Contra will rarely if ever catch all the opponents so you'll keep eating damage after, and you'll be half naked because already low HP and out of purify. But this doesn't detract for the points you made that the animation may be too long, etc. I'm not enough qualified in PCT to judge on my end.

Yeah we have some very good PCTs on NA as well. Very few but some nonetheless.

[Loggos]

I actually agree with much of what you said. Thank you so much for typing out such a thorough response. I love the idea about holy sharing a cooldown timer with comet along with my idea of holy healing allows around the target. 7.2 is closing in. We know we’re getting more PvP updates. Let’s see if PCT gets anymore updates/changes.

You're welcome! Let's hope for some good news for picto!

I had some more thoughts re: black comment taking so long.

I think this could be indicative of one of the job's core problems in general.

Coming back to the point that on paper picto looks fine but may not always feel like it ingame, I think this disconnect between consecutive hits of damage could be a reason.
Because numbers-wise and also utility wise I don't think it's worse than other classes. It does have a lot of tools and high numbers.
But (often due to animations) a lot of its attacks don't connect as swiftly/fluently and as a result leave "long" gaps between incoming damage that enemies can use to recover.
The only exceptions are the muse oGCDs which you can combo nicely with comets and starprism.

Swift-casting muses on the other hand is the biggest offender because 1) it puts your entire kit on cooldown (except your muse oGCDs), even sprint and 2) the cooldown is based on the hard-cast animation. So you don't actually save time with smudge-casting muses. You just gain mobility. Because now that you have swift-cast your muse you are locked out of your entire kit for 3ish seconds.
The pressure you lose in those moments is often noticeable.
If you could swift-cast your muses and then immediately follow up with your comets and/or beam then you'd have much smoother and seamless combo game.

So in light of that I have to revise my previous point that picto is not clunky anymore. While it has been improved there is still unnecessary clunk.

I think removing those forced cooldowns and animations that lock you out of your kit for valuable seconds and making it more flexible and responsive would improve the job's damage potential in a more meaningful way than altering its numbers. The latter feels a bit like adding bandages on top of a wound instead of addressing the root cause. Having your big-hitters connect faster would allow you to put more pressure on your targets without overtuned stats.


Another idea I had was that with picto being rather niche your team mates might not always know your about your kit's utility so it ends up being underused. Many may not be aware of clawed muse's debuff or chocobustion's healing buff & damage reduction and star prism's damage buff and heal for example.

I cannot agree with the comparison with contradance though. Chocobastion isn't hard countered by 80% of the LBs in existence for starters. Chocobastion requires a tenth of the considerations that Contradance does, and Contra will rarely if ever catch all the opponents so you'll keep eating damage after, and you'll be half naked because already low HP and out of purify. But this doesn't detract for the points you made that the animation may be too long, etc. I'm not enough qualified in PCT to judge on my end.

Hm, could you elaborate on the emphasised parts? Because I'm not sure if we actually disagree or if we might just misunderstand each other. Perhaps I just phrased my original point badly.