Does FFXIV Hate Politics Now? [Spoilers for Dawntrail 7.1]

[JohnLakeside]

Lyse was like 5 years old when she fled Ala Mhigo, then lived for 20 years in Sharlayan and Eorzea. At the start of and throughout Ala Mhigo she's Ala Mhigan in word only. She's "European". Her role and characterisation are beat for beat a white savior narrative.

Even if you set aside the fact that half of StB takes place in the far east, where Lyse is once again coming in as an outsider, everyone knows that CBU3 historically uses tan skin colours as signifiers of racial politics while skirting the topic of race. Ala Mhigans, like Dhalmekians in FF16, are analoges of the Middle East without the devs actually committing to having POC prevalantly in their game as a collective people. They do this intentionally because they want to talk about topics related to racial politics in the real world, without actually discussing race. Whether they are wise to try it or whether they succeed, that's a topic for another day.

Fact of the matter is I don't think anyone would be calling Lyse a white savior if her character was dark skinned. There is nothing in the character herself that makes her a white savior nor does her white skin ever play any role in the story. I guess someone could argue that she is then a "foreign" savior, but that's also bellied by the fact that she is literally Ala Mhigan by birth and was a child refugee. So just because she didn't grow up under imperial rule, her care for her homeland is de facto problematic or suspect?

Its not like the Ala Mhigans treated her like Paul Atriedes or something. Now that's a literal white savior, though I understand intentionally so.

[CNitsah]

Do anyone even call her savior? If anything, it feels like the character was forced into that role, and it's one of the writing choice that felt the most weird with me. She never gained the status she was given.

Someone once told me that the whole "family duty/inheriting something because of your family and not your abilities" was a trope heavily used in japanese fiction, which could in some way explain things, but Lyse never showed any leadership skills, and the whole Doma part that should have taught her that never really achieved to convey that she learned to be a leader there. I always felt it was one of the reason Lyse was disliked : the scenario wanted to push her in a position she never really earned.

So it feels really weird to me that people discuss about her being a white savoir, when she never saved anything. Someone just went "I knew your father, so you should lead the resistance" and everyone rolled with it.

[Rosenstrauch]

"White savior" is a term referring to American imperialism and the systemic erasure of indigenous culture, which had been deemed as savage and sinful by the American people. There is a faction in Final Fantasy XIV that engaged in this behavior all throughout the game's story—it's Garlemald. Hell, Gaius's signature scene is one long "Kill the Indian, Save the Man" speech.

Lyse is not a "white savior". She is white-skinned and heroic. That is not the same thing.

[Mawlzy]

Lyse was like 5 years old when she fled Ala Mhigo, then lived for 20 years in Sharlayan and Eorzea. At the start of and throughout Ala Mhigo she's Ala Mhigan in word only. She's "European". Her role and characterisation are beat for beat a white savior narrative.

Even if you set aside the fact that half of StB takes place in the far east, where Lyse is once again coming in as an outsider, everyone knows that CBU3 historically uses tan skin colours as signifiers of racial politics while skirting the topic of race. Ala Mhigans, like Dhalmekians in FF16, are analoges of the Middle East without the devs actually committing to having POC prevalantly in their game as a collective people. They do this intentionally because they want to talk about topics related to racial politics in the real world, without actually discussing race. Whether they are wise to try it or whether they succeed, that's a topic for another day.

Do you know if, in the non-English versions, Lyse's accent is distinct from the "true" Ala Mhigans, and if so whether it carries the same class signifiers as the English version?

[Exmo]

Do you know if, in the non-English versions, Lyse's accent is distinct from the "true" Ala Mhigans, and if so whether it carries the same class signifiers as the English version?

I don't know about her accent in other languages, sorry.

I guess that would make her a savoir faire.

The whole story is riddled with ancestral privilege, with Lyse's elevation to leader being less credible than most.

The bastard son of a mad pope ends up leading the house of lords, even after political realignment.

Gridania? Only those with a rare mutation make top dog. Apparently because they hear voices in their head. That sounds like a scam.

Ul'Dah and Tural both monarchies.

Doma. Garlemald.

Oh well, I guess it's the nature of fantasy.

“Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony... You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!”

i think Merlwyb is the only major exception. Otherwise, all other state leaders are rulers by virtue of their birthright. Even the Crystal Exarch is descended from ancient kings. When they revealed in DT that Wuk Lamat would have ruled her village had she remained there instead of being moved to Tural, my eyes rolled out of my skull.

[Valence]

At this point I don't know if you both are trolling or not, but I'll bite.

Ehem. You do realize that Hydaelyn has no skincolor based racism right? It's mostly actual different races or nations going at each other, alá Ishgardians vs Au Ra for looking like dragons. Gridania being racist against Duskwights and Keepers of the Moon ( as much as SE is trying to pretend thats not a thing they wrote )

You do realize Lyse is Ala Mhigan right? You do realize that if you fly through Gyr Abania, even by your twisted logic of trying to troll / insert real world problems into a fantasy game that there are ton of "white people" who are also Ala Mhigan right? This is the Tural colonialism conversation all over again

This argument has never stood for the simple reason that those stories are consumed and experienced by people not part of their universe but living in ours, and written by people also living in ours, often touching on real subjects and themes that are found in ours. Thinking that there is an impenetrable barrier between both is wishful thinking in my opinion.

[CaptainLagbeard]

If you want to argue DT being a "white savior" story, I would point out that wuk comes to Sharlayan to find people to help her... And the closest Stormblood gets to it is the Doma part of the story. Though even there we don't go in just purely to save the locals.

SloppehIlberd kinda drags the other nations to the war at the end of HW, and after getting smashed by Zenos the WoL and crew went to Doma to help the resistance there to get them to team up against the Garleans.

[Auro_Seldaris]

One of the things that made A Realm Reborn so great was its rich political intrigue. Ul’dah’s Monetarists schemed against the Sultana, Limsa Lominsa’s pirates chafed under the Admiral’s rule, and Gridania was boiling over from tensions with the Duskwight Elezen and Ala Mhigan refugees. These conflicts made the world feel alive, layered, and grounded in real-world issues. Politics were central to the story, driving the narrative and building a complex world.

Fast forward to Dawntrail, and that political tension feels almost entirely absent. Take the Yok Huy, who gave up a vast empire that subjugated much of Tural, including the Pelupelu. While the story does mention that some people feel “uncomfortable” around them and there are a few Yok Huy who want to return to their status as conquerors, there’s little exploration of the lasting impact of their conquests. The Pelupelu, who were once enslaved by the Yok Huy, now seem to have completely forgotten or don’t care about their former subjugation.

Or consider Shaaloani, a region inspired by the American West. The discovery of ceruleum deposits has led to the construction of railroads and other industrial projects, which in our real history was a disaster for the native people. Yet, the local Hhetsarro people magically coexist with the industrialists drilling into their land. There’s no exploration of displacement, cultural erasure, or conflict over resources—instead, the two groups live side by side in harmony, a magical train horn solving all problems.

These are just a few examples of a trend in Dawntrail: political conflict is either absent or mentioned only as a token, with no real exploration of its consequences. Clearly the writers wanted a lighter tone after the heavy stakes of Endwalker, but it comes at the cost of the moral complexity and political realities that made the previous places feel alive.

I hope that future patches or expansions will bring political intrigue back. FFXIV’s world feels most alive when it grapples with the messy, conflicting interests of its inhabitants.

Am I off base? Do you miss the politics of earlier expansions?

Yes. To both questions. Yes, they hate politics. Also, yes I miss the politics. Or rather, I don't think Daichi Hiroi is savvy enough to competently handle such gravitas. I was originally going to make it a one-word reply, but might as well just go all in.

It was literally stated in a recent interview that Dawntrail was aimed at a younger audience. Despite the fact that MMO audiences tend to skew much older, ESPECIALLY despite the fact that FFXIV requires so much damn reading. (The lack of voice acting in the MSQ also looks, as LuLu put it, fucking cheap, when even f2P games have full voice acting in every scene.)

Certain people whined about politics in FFXIV. The same kind of people that whined about politics in the Star Wars prequels. Disney removed the politics, even when it rendered the situation of the galaxy in The Force Awakens into nonsensical garbage, and rendered it simplistic and silly. FFXIV has done the very same thing. This game is for kids now.

[Red-thunder]

Don't forget Red dead redemption references because popular game
Don't forget Cyberpunk references because popular game
Don't forget the 7.1 dungeon resident evil reference, because popular game

We lost the Whalaqee - Ceruleum storyline to "Muricans love cowboys right? Lets have cowboys with american accents"

The massacre of the worldbuilding frankly has started under Ishikawa, but back then it was considered in poor taste to call the writing out because everyone was just beguiled by the touching, emotional moments.

Now that we have none of that it's become ever clearer how the world of FF14 has become completely nonsensical and self-contradictory.

[Rosenstrauch]

Okay, so first off: None of that is remotely relevant to what I said. Second, Raubahn being the general of the Eorzean Alliance does not negate the fact that he, like Lyse, is a native Ala Mhigan, born and raised in the nation he is trying to liberate. Third, and most importantly, the legitimate governing body of Ala Mhigo was ground to dust over two consecutive wars—first by the people of Ala Mhigo in order to oust a tyrant king, then by the invading Garleans to subjugate the victors. The establishment of a new government began in patch 4.1, with Lyse representing the Ala Mhigan resistance alongside various leaders and elders from other factions in Gyr Abania. And by the end of that patch, despite the actions of the Qalyana Broodmother, there is no indication that this new government was disbanded. Also, Raubahn was swiftly selected—by that same government—to be the commander of the Ala Mhigan military, making Lyse subordinate to him.

So even if you were correct about Ala Mhigo having a "de facto ruler", it'd be Raubahn. Raubahn, who was 25 years old when he fled Gyr Abania as a refugee, and is now 44. Meaning that by the very metric you seem to believe is important in separating "real" Ala Mhigans from... Lyse I suppose, Raubahn is indeed an Ala Mhigan man.

But again, none of this is relevant to the fact that Lyse isn't a white savior. And frankly, I would ask you to stop appropriating the real suffering of Native Americans to complain about a fictional woman you don't like, but somehow I get the feeling there was never any sincerity behind your arguing to begin with.