Yuweyawata Field Station is so wrong

[USAFJerrySo]

I have no idea if the dungeon is hard or not. I am quite certain I won't enjoy it at all. If I wait until I'm geared up a bit, that lack of enjoyment will be over quicker.

I reach this conclusion from the fact I've disliked every dungeon from Troia onwards.

If the new one deviates from the usual DDR monotony, then I have a happy surprise coming!

You're now level 100. Expect the dungeons to be difficult after that, not easier.

[Mawlzy]

You do realize you're at level 100 right? You must be a super kind of special if you think dungeons difficulty should be equivalent as a level 1 dungeon.

Yes despite being "outright stupid" I have a vague recollection of leveling all DoW/DoM/DoH/DoL to 100.

It would indeed be a strange position to assume level 1 (no such beast) and level 100 dungeons would have the same difficulty. Which is why I don't.

Give my regards to Wesley.

[Mawlzy]

You're now level 100. Expect the dungeons to be difficult after that, not easier.

Uh huh. The one in 7.2 is considerably easier than several at 90. But in general I'd expect them to become more difficult. Your point?

[Carin-Eri]

I imagine some will continue to shriek abuse at the less skilled, but that is their problem, not mine.

Probably not - because less skilled players such as myself are unlikely to want to contribute at this point.

[Mawlzy]

Probably not - because less skilled players such as myself are unlikely to want to contribute at this point.

Honestly at this point, a significant reason I'll run dungeons with NPCs is that doing so with players has a decent chance of running into someone truly unpleasant.

[MorticiaFhey]

The whole point of the thread is to add choice.

I complain in the hope it will make content better. Most of my posts are on the PvP boards. PvP is now demonstrably far more interesting than these formulaic dungeons. If you're satisfied with the status quo, congratulations.

i mean, if they are so formulaic, then that should mean that they are easy as can be already because you know what to expect every time. if you want dungeons to be different, then they will be more difficult because it won't be the same thing every time. all the updates the devs have done in these patches are about making the game accessible for everyone. take a look at the black mage changes for example. they've made the job as a whole easier with not having to worry about dropping your thunder procs or astral fire/umbral ice. they've been working on reworking arr dungeons and adding trusts to make those more straightforward for new players, and to remove the pressure of playing with real people. the new expert dungeons all follow the same formula of 2 mob pulls and then a boss. even the boss mechanics themselves are repeated - often only doing one or two real mechanics that you have to figure out. you cannot realistically make things much easier than they are.

if you want them to be different, they will be harder, and then we will end up right back in this discussion that is happening now. if you are already complaining that the mechanics are too hard, how do you think you will react to them trying different ideas in dungeons, realistically speaking? the point of the "ddr" mechanics is that you can read them and react to them as they come, and unlike regular ddr, they are not fast.

[Mawlzy]

i mean, if they are so formulaic, then that should mean that they are easy as can be already because you know what to expect every time. if you want dungeons to be different, then they will be more difficult because it won't be the same thing every time. all the updates the devs have done in these patches are about making the game accessible for everyone. take a look at the black mage changes for example. they've made the job as a whole easier with not having to worry about dropping your thunder procs or astral fire/umbral ice...

if you want them to be different, they will be harder, and then we will end up right back in this discussion that is happening now. if you are already complaining that the mechanics are too hard, how do you think you will react to them trying different ideas in dungeons, realistically speaking? the point of the "ddr" mechanics is that you can read them and react to them as they come, and unlike regular ddr, they are not fast.

I think you have it backwards.

Take a dungeon like the Grand Cosmos. One boss you have to move seed pods around to avoid adds spawning. The second time you have to account for an arena knock-back. This is not particularly difficult, but it involves group coordination (something the "MMOs mean playing in groups" crowd claim to want). The final boss has that lovely quirk of having to use the furniture to remove the fire debuff. And it's not just presented with the debuff dropping off your bar, the furniture gets incinerated. It's delightful.

Instead, most recent dungeons are simply ramping up speed and overlap of dodge mechanics, and we have been told in no uncertain terms this is going to get worse; see the 7.2 patch notes on BLM. Why are they doing this? One can only speculate. It is certainly more in keeping with raids design, and allows those using third-party tools to assess their performance. Dps relative to maximum theoretical dps is easy to measure. How well you worked with your team moving seed pods and coordinating to make sure everyone could remove the fire debuff is not.

We could also move some of the difficulty from bosses to mobs, which have become completely irrelevant, hence perhaps why the chaotic "alliance raid" isn't an AR at all, it is a trial.

What causals/lower-skilled players want is not the issue here. You think a casual who plays BLM because they like the lore and glam gives a toss about it being gutted? They don't worry about the color of their parse. The like throwing fireballs.

It is the fact dungeons are so formulaic that has restricted the only design space devs are willing to use to an increased speed of dodgeball.

[Zakuyia]

Just giving my 2 cents on the new 7.2 dungeon and trial:

Imo both the dungeon and trial were too easy and slow. Dawntrail content has trained me to think faster, and this was kind of a step into the opposite direction.
The trial overall felt a bit uninspired, there wasn't really that much new or surprising.

The arcadion raids, however, were a real joy, especially M7. I hope this is the difficulty we will get in Occult Crescent, too.

Omg you too....I fell asleep on it and was like your shitting me right....this is the dungeon I waited for. Man dungeon felt like endwalkers level of easy. Not sure if we're losing dungeon difficulty as well. XD

With how much ppl on forum have skill issue. Yes that is a you problem. Get mad if you want I could care less your lvl 100 act like it.

I would not expect much from the devs if it meant scaling back difficulty cause forum spends more time complaining that fights are too hard vs idk putting the effort into learning the said fights.

Oh well XD there still 8.0 to see if the devs learned anything from this but by the track record of the forum that answer is a big old juicy flat af NOPE.

[Mawlzy]

Omg you too....I fell asleep on it and was like your shitting me right....this is the dungeon I waited for. Man dungeon felt like endwalkers level of easy. Not sure if we're losing dungeon difficulty as well. XD

With how much ppl on forum have skill issue. Yes that is a you problem. Get mad if you want I could care less your lvl 100 act like it.

I would not expect much from the devs if it meant scaling back difficulty cause forum spends more time complaining that fights are too hard vs idk putting the effort into learning the said fights.

Oh well XD there still 8.0 to see if the devs learned anything from this but by the track record of the forum that answer is a big old juicy flat af NOPE.

As someone who is bad at dungeons, the one in 7.2 frankly shocked me. If I can clear it at 710 ilvl going in blind without a single wipe, the tuning must be terrible.

That said, for those of you who understandably want more challenging MSQ dungeons, SE isn't going to drive paying customers from the game. The solution is a dual-track difficulty.

[MorticiaFhey]

Take a dungeon like the Grand Cosmos. One boss you have to move seed pods around to avoid adds spawning. The second time you have to account for an arena knock-back. This is not particularly difficult, but it involves group coordination (something the "MMOs mean playing in groups" crowd claim to want). The final boss has that lovely quirk of having to use the furniture to remove the fire debuff. And it's not just presented with the debuff dropping off your bar, the furniture gets incinerated.

Instead, most recent dungeons are simply ramping up speed and overlap of dodge mechanics, and we have been told in no uncertain terms this is going to get worse

It is the fact dungeons are so formulaic that has restricted the only design space devs are willing to use to an increased speed of dodgeball.

you're not understanding what i'm saying and how it relates to the original topic, which is exclusively about the difficulty of the dungeons.

you're saying you want more interesting mechanics. i understand that. but you're not understanding that the devs aren't putting those more unique mechanics in the dungeons because then people come into the forum and complain that it's too difficult. so everything gets simplified to what we have now in normal dungeons, which is a very slow very telegraphed ddr, which you yourself even admitted was easy... yet people still complain it's too hard because it's too fast.

so again, this is what you need to understand. if you want more unique mechanics, you have to accept that the dungeons will be more difficult. let's be real, half the healers in duty finder don't even know you can esuna debuffs with a blue bar above them. half the tanks are too scared to pull more than a single pack at max level. half the dps players don't even use their damage buffs. how do you realistically expect things to go if the devs give in and add dungeons with unusual mechanics? read this thread. people don't even like dungeons at the low difficulty they are now. you cannot have a dungeon be both very interesting and very simple. it simply does not work that way. people can't read slow ddr mechanics, but you expect them to be coordinated enough for a group mechanic? half the time in df people try to drop aoes on me because they don't understand basic spreads. if the grand cosmos had come out this patch, people would have been on the forums complaining about the mechanics being hard to read, especially on the first boss with the brooms.

and there is a dual track difficulty already. you have duty finder, or you have trusts.