Yuweyawata Field Station is so wrong

[Mawlzy]

Is that why it's in the EXPERT DUNGEON roulette?

The game has bots that will do mechanics for you. If someone can't put the bare minimum amount of thought into understanding what only they have to do in a dungeon then they should play something else is my feeling.

Putting that aside my bias for a moment, what is a solution? The game has a mechanic it has used in the past called Thrice Come Ruin. That is stacking debuff that will result in death if enough mechanics are failed. Instead of taking enough damage to die some mechanics give this debuff. So you get 2 or 3 chances to get it right before punishment. And there does need to be punishment. A heavy DOT maybe if death is too severe.

I still believe we are just starting to pull back from the effortless dungeons of EW and I think people need to acclimate to a new baseline before they cry about it.

Can we please put this one to rest?

There is one dominant mechanic in this game: stand on the correct pixel.

[Arohk]

There is one dominant mechanic in this game: stand on the correct pixel.

well, usually there is a lot more room than one pixel, but sometimes it can get tight, luckily , our hitbox is also only one pixel so you can stand on the smallest free space possible :P

see example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMR9cD_lhZo

[Mawlzy]

well, usually there is a lot more room than one pixel, but sometimes it can get tight, luckily , our hitbox is also only one pixel so you can stand on the smallest free space possible :P

see example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMR9cD_lhZo

Sure, my point was the one thing NPCs can not do is save you from the dominant mechanic.

I understand you and others feel there is no reason why level 100 players should not be able to play dodgeball well, but the reality is many can not. I genuinely thank you for your advice concerning hardware and UI/HUD, but I'd also suggest that those who spend 95% of their time crafting, gathering... even playing PvP(!), might feel it's a bit of an ask to switch to controller or a multi-button MMO mouse.

I'd also suggest such players would engage with PvE more pro-actively and actually improve if some of that PvE was enjoyable to them. I completely understand some players simply don't try. It's a massive problem in PvP. There are far more who have increasingly lost interest in MSQ dungeons because of the increase in difficulty. Sure they can "clear" while spending half the time being flat on their back, but that's a lousy solution for everyone.

Besides. There's a time and a place for that sort of thing. College.

And as I've emphasized, despite the fact high-end PvEers are already spoiled rotten in this game, I'm actually keen for you to find MSQ dungeons fun too. Hence dual-track.

[Frizze]

Sure, my point was the one thing NPCs can not do is save you from the dominant mechanic.

Not to re-argue anything from the last few pages, but this is only half true. The Trust NPCs cant save you from positioning mistakes, only a fellow player can do that(whether via rescue or res). However, "follow the danger dorito" is a workable strat. Following Y'sh got you cleanly through every fight in EW aside from maybe the lvl 85 dungeon. They do sometimes program them to mess up survivable mechs the first time, but you can do worse then closely following Krile(or whoever else).

[Alice_Rivers]

While I agree that there is a problem with content design, I am among those who would see dungeons be more interesting (and better balanced so that tanks actually have something to tank and healers have something to do... At all) but that would involve the devs making something that isn't "dodge the aoe". It's kind of sad how all combat content in this game since at least ShB distils down to "dodge the aoe", we used to have to press buttons, interact with things... Now it's just new patterns of aoes. The Tuweyawata hole is no different really, only the penalty is instant death which is why I hate it.

A two track approach to "difficulty" does nothing to even abate, much less fix the real problems this game has.

[Mawlzy]

While I agree that there is a problem with content design, I am among those who would see dungeons be more interesting (and better balanced so that tanks actually have something to tank and healers have something to do... At all) but that would involve the devs making something that isn't "dodge the aoe". It's kind of sad how all combat content in this game since at least ShB distils down to "dodge the aoe", we used to have to press buttons, interact with things... Now it's just new patterns of aoes. The Tuweyawata hole is no different really, only the penalty is instant death which is why I hate it.

A two track approach to "difficulty" does nothing to even abate, much less fix the real problems this game has.

Sure. All dual-track does is potentially make those at each end of the skill spectrum less miserable.

But yes, there's a more fundamental issue with the "dodge the AoE" design; it's bloody boring. It's also intertwined with job design.

I'd even suggest many of those who currently struggle with PvE do so precisely because rapid cognition and accurate movement are particularly challenging for them.

Even including multiple wipes, I guess I haven't negotiated the dreaded hole more than half a dozen times. But despite being crap at PvE I've never fallen down it. Maybe my one skill is running around in circles.

[Xapapetsu]

I'll put this as nicely as I can, clearing casual content isn't a matter of if it's hard or not. No casual content is hard, people just want to shut their brain off when they play the game. This is a lvl 100 dungeon, I don't think asking players to do the basics of stand out of fire and let mechanic resolve is asking too much. There's no enrage, the time limit I believe is 90 minutes and having a single good tank or healer can pretty much trivialize the content since they can solo this content with how much they have in their kit. Elden ring starts by fighting the soldier of godrick should all enemies be that easy because the playerbase doesn't want to learn how to play the game? The argument that easy content needs to be easier because people never learned how to play the game isn't a good one and it's very bad for the future of the game and it's bad for the players because the gap between normal, extreme, savage and ultimate will continue to grow. It's already a large enough gap between normal and extreme we don't need it to grow larger.

[Mawlzy]

I'll put this as nicely as I can, clearing casual content isn't a matter of if it's hard or not. No casual content is hard, people just want to shut their brain off when they play the game. This is a lvl 100 dungeon, I don't think asking players to do the basics of stand out of fire and let mechanic resolve is asking too much. There's no enrage, the time limit I believe is 90 minutes and having a single good tank or healer can pretty much trivialize the content since they can solo this content with how much they have in their kit. Elden ring starts by fighting the soldier of godrick should all enemies be that easy because the playerbase doesn't want to learn how to play the game? The argument that easy content needs to be easier because people never learned how to play the game isn't a good one and it's very bad for the future of the game and it's bad for the players because the gap between normal, extreme, savage and ultimate will continue to grow. It's already a large enough gap between normal and extreme we don't need it to grow larger.

And you know this how?

[Arohk]

And you know this how?

Yesterday i did Leveling roulette, i got the outpost.

The enemies and first boss died suspiciously slow, so i observed what the black mage was doing and observed that he was only casting fire 1 and fire 3 like you do on lvl 50, he also switched back to ice while still having half of his MP.
When i told him he is casting the wrong spells and maybe should look up how to play black mage, the response was:

"It is just a dungeon, who cares"
He then wanted to tell me that i play Warrior wrong and if he should explain how to do it right.
The Open minded person i am, i said, "sure go ahead".
"Nah it is just a dungeon, doesnt matter" he said..

Well at the last boss i must have accidentaly turned off my tank stance and shirked him, so he died to a tankbuster, which got him a little mad, but i said i "It is just a dungeon, mistakes happen"

after all i don't know how to play Warrior.

[Mawlzy]

Yesterday i did Leveling roulette, i got the outpost.

The enemies and first boss died suspiciously slow, so i observed what the black mage was doing and observed that he was only casting fire 1 and fire 3 like you do on lvl 50, he also switched back to ice while still having half of his MP.
When i told him he is casting the wrong spells and maybe should look up how to play black mage, the response was:

"It is just a dungeon, who cares"
He then wanted to tell me that i play Warrior wrong and if he should explain how to do it right.
The Open minded person i am, i said, "sure go ahead".
"Nah it is just a dungeon, doesnt matter" he said..

Well at the last boss i must have accidentaly turned off my tank stance and shirked him, so he died to a tankbuster, which got him a little mad, but i said i "It is just a dungeon, mistakes happen"

after all i don't know how to play Warrior.

This has nothing to do with why some people find content hard.

Unfortunately there are few players likely to share their difficulties on these boards because they can see they'll expose themselves to ridicule.

Xapapetsu tells us "no casual content is hard."

The statement is ridiculous. The difficulty of content is largely subjective. One can discuss relative levels of difficulty in the same kind of content. Clearly "normal" content is less difficult than EX, Savage, Ult. So what?

Is tensor calculus hard? Not to me. I'm a retired mathematician.

Is driving a Formula 1 card hard? Very hard for me, I'm blind in one eye.

Is chess hard? Backgammon? Skiing? Mountain climbing? Tetris?

Different people excel at different things.

Unfortunately the one thing many in this thread excel at is being completely dismissive of the struggles of others, stating categorically it the problem is that "people just want to shut their brain off."

Why would they do that? Why pay for a game with which you refuse to engage. It's completely implausible.

Sure you'll find individuals on occasion dogging a dungeon. Frontline is plagued by people just there for the rewards who literally AFK. That's not who we're talking about.

All that said, I like your solution in the dungeon. Vote dismiss is also available, and this individual was arguably breaking ToS.