Yuweyawata Field Station is so wrong

[Mawlzy]

I think you're underestimating how hard a good player team outperforms current dungeon design. Our characters are tuned to be able to take on and complete Ultimates, which require you to bring your classes to the edge of their capabilities. If you bring those same capabilities to bear against a dungeon, you are never under any point in danger.

A harder dungeon will never be interesting enough to queue for its own sake until it reaches Criterion level, and those take significantly more resources - they won't make Crit versions of all the MSQ dungeons. If they did I would certainly give them a shot. Those wouldn't solve the tomestone issue though, since I wouldn't want to do them 5 times a week like Expert roulette asks.

Even if they did that, though, I would do the easy version to progress story. There's competing motivations here. I want the story done because it's generally required to continue moving onwards with the game. I've lost interest with the visual novel contained with FFXIV and I just want to continue down the excellent raiding track. At least personally, content loses a lot of points when it's required for me to do it. A brutal recent example is that they released an excellent new content type - CAR - which I should have loved, but then they released it on Christmas eve for god knows what reason and also gave it pieces that significantly outperformed the healer 730 which had mandatory piety beforehand.

There certainly seems to be a fundamental problem when the top 5% (?) of the player base (ultimate raiders) has to run the same required content as players who have no interest in even attempting extremes.

Maybe the issue is the way this is all wrapped with the gearing system.

[Supersnow845]

There certainly seems to be a fundamental problem when the top 5% (?) of the player base (ultimate raiders) has to run the same required content as players who have no interest in even attempting extremes.

Maybe the issue is the way this is all wrapped with the gearing system.

It’s not the gearing system, the problem is the fact that the modern jobs have almost identical ceilings and floors

Back during the Midas days when Midas was basically ultimate level difficulty in savage on an arbitrary scale of 0-100 a dungeon might only ask 20 out of 100 from you while A8S asked 95 out of 100 from you. The same job could handle both ends because a person who had the skills to put out 95 out of 100 in A8S could still express that level of skill in a dungeon

Now the jobs exist on a far smaller scale as the ceiling has been chopped off and the baseline has been bought up that just randomly throwing out buttons does about 80 out of 100 on the old scale

So the jobs are now hilariously overtuned for casual content because the ceiling is so much closer to the floor the floor has to be good enough to do almost all of an ultimate and the closer ceiling to floor ratio means that it’s far less interesting to optimise content you are overqualified for as you are only getting like 10 arbitrary point improvements rather than 70

[Sorabaka]

There certainly seems to be a fundamental problem when the top 5% (?) of the player base (ultimate raiders) has to run the same required content as players who have no interest in even attempting extremes.

Maybe the issue is the way this is all wrapped with the gearing system.

That i kinda agree with. I wish they gave more tomes from savage weeklies. 100 from each for example, and then we'd have to get only 50 more which is easily doable by doing something quick and easy.

Gearing system is another issue worthy of its own topic...

[Valence]

Frankly it's still a problem that you can't get more tomes by just clearing your savages and other challenging modes to be honest. They give almost nothing, because SE actually hopes that good players run their low end dungeons 1) to keep queues alive and 2) to eventually carry.
People should be able to earn their gear and currencies with the content that they enjoy doing. I can certainly farm tomestones with my ranked pvp alone (I overcap it more than ten times a week during peek seasons), so why not raiding too? And it's not like I actually NEED any gear in pvp...

[Valence]

The usual analogies with dark souls or any solo game are moot by definition of said solo games not condensing dozens of different kinds of content attracting dozens of different kinds of players. Also you read very angry for some reason?
I also think that people tend to mix up battle content difficulty and encounter mechanical difficulty, the former which has been made totally irrelevant by job design and battle systems, and the latter still however, being at least a minimum relevant even in dungeons.

[Kuroka]

No the Souls analogy is just right - there are games that just arent made for you, you CAN however limb through single player stuff as its your problem if you waste 100 hours for stuff that should take you 10. But on Multiplayergames its a different story...

And no i suck at Souls games and plenty others lol But besides maybe the controls id never ask for them to be changed.

[Valence]

No the Souls analogy is just right - there are games that just arent made for you, you CAN however limb through single player stuff as its your problem if you waste 100 hours for stuff that should take you 10. But on Multiplayergames its a different story...

Just go and ignore every argument I made and just tell me "no u", I guess? Not that it matters anyway.

[Allooutrick]

You may not want to hear this but, this dungeon is 5 expansions deep. Each expansion takes between 10 and 40 hours. Add the base game to that. You should be good enough to handle a story dungeon after 60 to 240 hours. If not, do what MMOs are good at and talk to your fellow players for help.

[Mawlzy]

Just to recap the situation for the new posters, who are clearly very intelligent because they come in here yelling and stamping their feet recommending subscribers quit the game:

FFXIV is an MMO that features a huge range of activities with which players engage.

The PvE in general and dungeons in particular have devolved into a repetitive, dull, DDR routine. Within the player base there is a significant range in ability for dealing with this monotony.

Currently, all players are compelled to complete identical MSQ dungeons, unlike in more enlightened games that recognize skill differences exist, and thus that different players want different things from required content.

There are trivial methods to address this issue that would reduce the current levels of frustration and unhappiness.

[Sorabaka]

FFXIV is an MMO that features a huge range of activities with which players engage.

The PvE in general and dungeons in particular have devolved into a repetitive, dull, DDR routine. Within the player base there is a significant range in ability for dealing with this monotony.

Yeah, and that's exactly why you proposing devolving everything less than savage into "press button to win" type of content. Thanks but no. I actually would pay to see someone like you put in, for example, Pharos Sirius dungeon from ARR on patch. Compared to old dungeons, the new ones are incredibly easy.

There are trivial methods to address this issue that would reduce the current levels of frustration and unhappiness.

There are no such methods. Again, whatever you proposed about easy mode for dungeon will not work, because nobody would do the normal difficulty for the same rewards. And if they just remove normal difficulty and leave the easy one, we'll have another endwalker situation, where the hardest challenge of any dungeon is to not fall asleep.

The PvE in general and dungeons in particular have devolved into a repetitive, dull, DDR routine.

This is called a gameplay loop, my dude. And to your surprise, every game has it. You can take even WoW for example. Yeah, new pvp battle zone on the start of the expac is cool and unique, but after a month it becomes a "repetitive, dull, DDR routine' because you do the same dailies, the same weeklies, the same actions for the rewards of this particular expansion.

more enlightened games that recognize skill differences exist

Can you name at least one MMO that have an easy mode dungeons and isn't a Korean cash grab at the same time? I sure can't. Not to say that endgame dungeons in these games don't have an easy mode, and also these type of games most of the time have free pvp, which i'm sure definitely not helping people who find FFXIV dungeons too difficult.

that different players want different things from required content

Yeah, and out of all MMO games FFXIV probably has the biggest variety of content you can do. Struggle with battle content? You can do gathering/crafting/Gold Saucer/RP/housing/etc. And if you struggle with battle content and still want to do it, they gave you Trusts, which can carry you through anything, as long as you don't feck up the mechanics too much. This is already as easy as it can get.

BUT they probably could add easy mode to Trust system, where you would get Echo similar to what you get in solo instances in MSQ, which gives you several "lives" basically. They actually added this one time with Trusts, for Hydaelyn fight in Endwalker. You could "die" from mechanics 3 or 4 times there. Would this be a good enough solution to your problem? Or you specifically want it for multiplayer part?