Damage gap closer should vanish

[Zarkovitch]

Yep you hear it, PLD,WAR still have gap closer with dmg and are force to use it for purpose of dmg, I bet later on this ability will be nuissance for prog due you need to gap close on boss outside burst window. Meanwhile, DRK,GBN are chilling and use whenever it properly needed. This relic of the past should be remove by adding a second stack other ogcd damage ability (Upheaval,orogeny,expiacion)with adjustments for lost of gap closer dmg, so PLD,WAR can stop griefing,memeing fights for that juicy 150 potency.

[Valence]

Why forced? This is supposedly an opportunity vs cost design, where you have to decide whether you want to use those abilities for best damage, or for mobility, which is also something one can find in various other jobs, notably casters with some mobility tools. I am not surprised though that this keeps cropping up again and again because players are seemingly allergic to tactical decisions and probably a little to parse brain rotten to accept this concept.

I am far from saying that I do like this specific mechanic though, I don't really have a horse in this race, but the reasoning really resonates badly with me and this is exactly after those kinds of demands that SE brings out the sandpaper to accommodate them.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Counter-point - tank gapclosers should operate more like Samurai's Hissatsu: Gyoten, where the cost is low but the potency is proportional to the Kenki spent and actually producing the same potency-per-gauge as Hissatsu: Shinten.

We had this - Warrior's Onslaught did exactly that in Shadowbringers, I even did the math back then and in most cases, it was effectively equal to using standard Fell Cleaves, averaging out critical hits of course.

But we really wanted to copy-paste Plunge for the x-th amount of time, then suddenly it's "oops, all Plunge, please delete Plunge its awful" and now every dash needs to suddenly no longer have damage (I blame Monk's Thunderclap for this, they mainly received this because they were busy as is OGCD wise). To hell with that idea, either deal with the opportunity cost or ask for a better design before removing damage from all dashes.

[Azurarok]

Does OP have tales from the duty/partyfinder they'd like to share?

[Mikey_R]

Counter-point - tank gapclosers should operate more like Samurai's Hissatsu: Gyoten, where the cost is low but the potency is proportional to the Kenki spent and actually producing the same potency-per-gauge as Hissatsu: Shinten.

Note, PLD's gauge isn't tied to their damage, so you cannot make a potency per gauge equivalent.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Note, PLD's gauge isn't tied to their damage, so you cannot make a potency per gauge equivalent.

1.) You could make a new gauge.
2.) You could literally just take Holy Sheltron + Intervention off the gauge, make them share a CD and have two charges of 25s for it - in full uptime fights this is literally what it does (22s per charge technically due to AA timings but you get the point)
3.) Not every dash would need to be gauge bound anyways, PLD is the tank with the best ranged attacks as filler and half their burst even.

[Carighan]

I'd go a step further and say that while all tanks should have some form of gapclosing, they ought to all work quite different and in different contexts.

So for example Warrior might have what they have in PvP, a delayed AoE gapcloser that sits on a medium CD. Paladin might just not have one to begin with, instead getting various from-range AoE options for pick-up (like Imperator provides in later levels, but something you get early enough to matter, maybe the shield-throw chains through 3-4 enemies like the Protection Paladin gets in WoW?). Dark Knight can get a system where the current slide is upgraded to Plunge after using Unmend, and for Gunbreaker I'd have both Burst Strike and Fated Circle charge the enemy if you're at range.

In other words:

* Warrior: AoE gapcloser but delayed animation/effect. It's an oGCD but the animation is so long that if you use it as part of your rotation, you clip enough of the next GCD so it's a damage loss.
* Dark Knight: Instant gapcloser but no damage unless upgraded. Requires Unmend first so it's a damage loss unless you are actually disengaged.
* Paladin: AoE ranged attacks instead of a gapcloser. Not an issue since that'd be part of the normal rotation anyways. (now that I think about it, might as well turn Shield Bash into a GCD-based ranged attack that throws the shield, stuns the first target, then chains to 3 more dealing damage or something)
* Gunbreaker: GCD-based gapcloser but full damage. Used as part of your normal rotation anyways, so no additional workload.

[Mikey_R]

3.) Not every dash would need to be gauge bound anyways, PLD is the tank with the best ranged attacks as filler and half their burst even.

This would be the option I would go with. Not have PLD's gap closer be gauge bound, but maybe take away a charge as, as you have said, it has a lot of ranged opportunities. Even an unbuffed Holy Spirit is 400 potency over the other tanks 150 potency ranged attacks.

this is mainly just to stop each gap closer from being the same as each other.

[Arohk]

Why forced?

for the same reason you use any other damage ability in combat.
It does damage, so it is required to kill the boss.

If you don't use it you lose damage, if you have a 10 Minute fight, that's 20 Gap Closers you are not utilizing, which is a Loss of 3.000 potency in damage.

If you don't understand that, you don't understand the game.


Mobility skills should never do damage, that is a core design flaw, you can debate if there is a secondary effect like a stun or snare to them, but not Damage.

[Raraka]

In other words:

* Warrior: AoE gapcloser but delayed animation/effect. It's an oGCD but the animation is so long that if you use it as part of your rotation, you clip enough fo the next GCD so it's a damage loss.
* Dark Knight: Instant gapcloser but no damage unless upgraded. Requires Unmend first so it's a damage loss unless you are actually disengaged.
* Paladin: AoE ranged attacks instead of a gapcloser (now that I think about it, might as well turn Shield Bash into a GCD-based ranged attack that throws the shield, stuns the first target, then chains to 3 more dealing damage or something). Not an issue since that'd be part of the normal rotation animations, the shield toss would be GCD so not a damage weave.
* Gunbreaker: GCD-based gapcloser but full damage. Used as part of your normal rotation anyways, so no additional workload.

I like your ideas, they feel like they have nuance and depth put into them

Therefore SE will never use it :c