Overworld Design Rant And Feedback

[IvoryBadge]

hello everyone

this is a feedback regarding exploration and engaging in the overworld, which i think is a vast open space of "Nothing"
i will rant and give some suggestions, and will also note that i'm writing this based on my own experiences with the game, i do not represent anyone but myself.

that being said, let's start first with rants:


let's talk about world layout design, after ARR most zones are constantly getting more and more bland with every expansion, except few i can think of on top of my head. Churning Mist and The Tempest for example have amazing verticality it felt good progressing through, other than that The Tempest is prime example of "Nothing"
what made ARR zones exceptional is despite how small they are they felt more alive and engaging. Thanalan for example has so much going on in one zone, Southern Thanalan has Little Ala Mhigo in its heart, Amaljaa tribe by it's east and and a huge sandscape to the south. not only that but there's a hidden path and a lot of Key places that serve MSQ, Job Quests, Fates and dungeons.
comparing each zone of ARR to DT is like night and day for how empty and soulless DT zones are.


good layout design not only adds life to zones, but also adds meaning to exploration. almost every dungeon in ARR has entrance or visual representation attached to them (Huakke Manor, Sunken Temple,
pharos Sirios. etc..). even i as someone who doesn't care about story get intrigued by little details like these, makes me wander around and think about what it has to offer. stuff like this has been slowly fading after ARR which is sad, because despite how small of a detail it is it adds immersion and engagement with the world.

World Content

i don't recall when did i started playing FF14 but i do remember starting with a free trial up to level 30. and leveling past 20 was rough, MSQ didn't give much exp back then, which made me do side quests, Fates and frankly killing normal mobs. it made me feel something i miss, it made me feel fulfilled, accomplished or rewarded after unlocking the next MSQ, i felt progression through gameplay, not cutscenes. this might be controversial but MSQ shouldn't give much exp points, because it prevents players from engaging with the world they're playing in.

Fates are also a big part of the world, yet again ARR shows us variety in Fates and how fun they can be when you do it with random players. escorts, big bosses, timed challenges and defending fates were fun to do. now if you look at recent Expansions, collect stuff, kill 4 mobs on cooldown, and big health mob that can be soloed anyway. no one does fates except for gems and unlock vendor items. i think it should be more than that like give little more xp to make it a extra option for leveling instead of doing msq for your main class and spamming roulettes and the same dungeons over and over again.

(1/2)

[IvoryBadge]

as much as i like Idyllshire, Eulmore and Solution nine, nothing tops Mor Dhona as a hub area especially back when it was populated. because it is part of the final zone and designed in a way that disciples of war/magic/hand/land gather together in a cozy feel, it feels like home. it's so lively that you see players coming in and out, an adventure center.

accessable buildings already been talked about in another thread so yeah, see the difference in ARR and DT and how it serves exploration, engagement and the role play aspect.

Gearing doesn't mean anything until you're max level which is an issue in itself. there's no feel of getting better and stronger to tackle mobs, fates, hunts, dungeons at your level. i've literally progressed through DT with EW tome gear until it locked me out with ILvl and straight up slapped on whatever i got from dungeons for convenience.


now that ranting is done i will suggest few ideas that might be good for the overworld content

-skirmishes like bozja are amazing and i think it would serve the overworld perfectly. now instead of Fates, how about certain areas being controlled by bandits, undead and tribal beasts just like ARR? (getting to Ifrit Altar in Southern Thanalan for example in Amaljaa territory) and they're not easy to traverse on your own so you join a set number of players to progress/clear and get treasure chests and rewards that are meaningful, i'd say something like worthwhile gil and low chance getting gear from dungeon unlocked within the same zone, it gives a second option for glamour hunters and helps with gearing and exp.

-mini games like mount racing, hunting (not hunts, but an actual chase for a prey something similar to Behemoth Fate but of course less challenging and solo), triple triad etc..

-PvP Arenas, at least 1 small arena per expansion. southwest of Churning Mist there's a small floating land with ruins extremely fit as a pvp arena. you can even go further and beyond by making every arena has special set of rules, 4v4, no healing duels etc..

-"A Frosty reception" is the coolest and most fun Instanced Duty to date and i was so excited for quests like this until a friend informed me it got backlash for being Difficult and Frustrating. i couldn't help but be at a loss of words and disappointed. so, why not have instances like these be in side quests/aether current quests? "i'm here for story" folks can have their second life simulator, give us optional duties like this, PLAESE.



in conclusion, this is what i've got as a feedback. personally i think it will make the world more lively and adds longevity when an expansion drops, also makes gameplay and exploration more engaging and fun.

(2/2)

[Voryn]

Overworld zones just being wide and empty areas makes them so boring when in the msq I’ll end up summoning my mount and then sometimes just be auto running towards the next waypoint for what feels like a whole minute while I look at my phone. In Dawntrail the big offenders felt like the lower area in Kozama'uka and the upper area of Yak T’el. Areas that don’t feel so massive and actually have something to navigate around feel a little better, like Dawntrail’s last zone. Even though that one feels too big as well to me, it helped a little that the layouts of its areas weren’t so wide and open and boring.

If going from one msq objective to another is really boring, then if there’s ever a moment where the msq story isn’t interesting then there’s nothing to gain enjoyment from other than looking forward to get the section over with. I especially felt that way in Shaaloani since I wasn’t interested in that part of the story.

I’d appreciate there being more interesting layouts or more things happening in the zones, like OP is suggesting. Maybe we could also have some especially strong enemies that we need to safely navigate around like in Eureka or the Xenoblade games. Dying in the overworld doesn’t have much of a penalty in this game anyway. It was really nice in ARR sometimes wandering into an area with higher level enemies and then having to be careful if I wanted to look around.

[mallleable]

Yeah, the over world absolutely needs to be better. A strong, and fun overworld means every expansion has up to 6 zones of gameplay at launch, and the gameplay should be good enough to fill in the gameplay gaps between major patches.

Shameless self promo of my FATE improvement wish list: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ement-wishlist

[MoofiaBossVal]

I don't think big flatlands are conceptually bad. WoW has a lot of them. The main issue here is that the moment to moment experience of running around FF14's overworld is boring, mainly because there is no challenge. Past ARR you aren't allowed to go to a zone and run into mobs higher level than you. You can go wherever, aggro anything (unless it's a rare hunt mob) and you won't die. You would have to go to a FATE and aggro as many enemies as possible, and only then might you be in danger and have to think about what you're going to do, and if you do die then whatever, you just respawn and teleport back having lost nothing.

Contrast that with FF11, where past level 10 you can't solo same level mobs and might have to be up to 10 levela higher to do so. So you have to be very careful just traveling through the world, and if you aggro something and you don't have a party, the now you need to start thinking hard about what you are going to do, like stunning it and then running to a zone line trying to not to turn and slow down as much as possible. Or shouting for help and trying to rendevousz in chat. And if you die, you are going to respawn far away and won't be able to get back immediately, and might delevel.

WoW back in the day also had a threatening overworld. You couldn't fly and mobs would snare dismount you, and you could run into mobs much higher level than you, and you could only die a few times before your armor needed repair which would mean journeying to a friendly hub. There was no teleporting everywhers. So you had to be careful travelling. Nowadays mobs level scale and are not much of a threat and you can get anywhere within a couple minutes due to portals + 3 hearthstones + dragonriding.

Ofcourse, more imteresting geometry and navigational challenges will be appreciated but mob threat and the consequences for dying is what needs to be improved here.

[IvoryBadge]

Yeah, the over world absolutely needs to be better. A strong, and fun overworld means every expansion has up to 6 zones of gameplay at launch, and the gameplay should be good enough to fill in the gameplay gaps between major patches.

Shameless self promo of my FATE improvement wish list: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ement-wishlist

seems like i've missed it. really good wishlist, appreciate the promo!

[IvoryBadge]

Ofcourse, more imteresting geometry and navigational challenges will be appreciated but mob threat and the consequences for dying is what needs to be improved here.

conceptually flat landscapes aren't bad at all. it's that most of them aren't interesting or got no gameplay around them except go from point A to point B. and in FF14 case i think they focus mostly on the "pretty" aspect of the zones more than gameplay itself.

i do agree with you that threat, challenge and consequences are much needed. however SE is catering to more casual playerbase which is a shame, a little more balance could be a help there. Eureka got that nerfing slap before now it's way less punishing/threatening.

[Jeeqbit]

almost every dungeon in ARR has entrance or visual representation attached to them (Huakke Manor, Sunken Temple,
pharos Sirios. etc..). even i as someone who doesn't care about story get intrigued by little details like these

I prefer these details as well. They do exist in the expansions though (click links for the pictures of them in the open world):

• Heavensward had Dusk Vigil, Sohm Al, The Aery, Gubal Library, ARF, Neverreap, Fractal Continuum, Saint Mocianne's Arboretum, Xelphatol, Baelsar's Wall.
• Stormblood had Shisui of the Violet Tides, Bardam's Mettle sorta vaguely is the mountains that you see, Doma Castle, Ala Mhigo, Kugane Castle (sorta), Temple of the Fist, Skalla, Hell's Lid, Swallow's Compass, The Burn (you can see it from Azim Steppe tbh).
• In Shadowbringers, Holminster has a gate leading to it, Dohn Mheg is underwater, the Qitana Ravel has a gate, Malikah's Well, Mt. Gulg, Amaurot, The Twinning, Pagl'than.
• In Endwalker, Tower of Zot is visible, Tower of Babil is visible, Ktisis is visible, Aitiascope is visible.
• In Dawntrail, Worqor Zormor is visible, the Skydeep Cenote can partially be entered, Origenics is visible.

The ones I didn't mention are pretty vague or involve a flight or ferry to it. But it seems they have kept dungeons mostly visible in the open world still. Some of the places they leave there at expansion release do leave you wondering what they are about until the MSQ addresses it - such as the location of the upcoming 7.2 dungeon which will have invited lots of speculation before it was announced.

this might be controversial but MSQ shouldn't give much exp points, because it prevents players from engaging with the world they're playing in.

I get that and I actually agree. The one time I played the trial of FF11, which was about 15 years ago now, I enjoyed just literally killing enemies to level. For the same reason, I enjoyed leveling in Eureka by merely killing enemies. But most people are not like us. Most people said they hated this in Eureka. They get way more complaints if they make it like that. The amount of hate for Eureka was unreal - these forums used to be squarely against it in Stormblood and I was one of the only ones speaking positively of it here. The tide has since shifted in the opposite direction because of how they casualized it, but if they released it as it used to be we'd probably see the backlash again.

ARR shows us variety in Fates and how fun they can be when you do it with random players. escorts, big bosses, timed challenges and defending fates were fun to do

True, there was more creativity like defending places in ARR. Although they were still easy and I've still solo'd some of its big boss FATEs, such as the one in East Shroud. I think sprouts do them out of ignorance more than anything and slowly learn they are pointless.

no one does fates except for gems and unlock vendor items. i think it should be more than that like give little more xp to make it a extra option for leveling instead of doing msq for your main class and spamming roulettes and the same dungeons over and over again.

You are mistaken here:

• FATEs were the main way of leveling alt jobs in ARR and early HW, until POTD released.
• FATEs give experience gain and many people level jobs while farming gemstones.
• They were a main method of leveling the new jobs in recent expansions, with lots of parties farming FATEs on expansion release to do MSQ with the new jobs (including Pictomancer and Viper). It ended up being better than Zadnor tbh.
• Forlorn maidens and bonus FATEs were added starting in Stormblood areas, to increase EXP gain.
• ARR FATEs are involved in ARR relics, HW FATEs are involved in HW and ShB relics, SB FATEs are involved in ShB relics, ShB/EW/DT FATEs have gemstone rewards and EW and DT have long term grind rewards.
• The MSQ+Sidequests were not designed to give you enough experience on their own. They intentionally required you to need to do something else - such as FATEs, to make up the remaining experience. I ran into this in every expansion before Endwalker, even on alt characters. I had to farm FATEs a bit or do roulettes to progress the final quests. It changed in Endwalker where the MSQ is intended to be enough on its own (without even sidequests). But with the sheer amount of MSQ it starts to become reasonable to just let them focus on MSQ by that point.

as much as i like Idyllshire, Eulmore and Solution nine, nothing tops Mor Dhona as a hub area especially back when it was populated. because it is part of the final zone and designed in a way that disciples of war/magic/hand/land gather together in a cozy feel, it feels like home. it's so lively that you see players coming in and out, an adventure center.

I have fond memories of Idyllshire being extremely populated in my world, so I disagree and think Idyllshire achieved that same feel (it has become populated again over time by sprouts+people doing Unreal). Rhalgr's Reach was also populated in Stormblood, but it started to get quiet then because the playerbase had become fractured as their interests diverged plus the split between the increasing number of areas the game had. With the removal of mounts in these areas, since we can't showcase mounts anymore the point is reduced so much less people stay there. It's usually populated on a reset day or after a major patch but then it's easy to see it go empty.

accessable buildings

That's an issue with modern game design generally tbh, where things are developed only if they will be used. Some of the greatest games in history were so because they designed the world first so that some of it wasn't used and could just be speculated on.

Gearing doesn't mean anything until you're max level which is an issue in itself.

I disagree that it should matter before DT anyway. The problem is they act like it matters when it doesn't. If they just accepted gear progression wasn't a thing in prior expansions, they could sync old dungeons to minimum item level. The reason they don't is to preserve "gear progression" despite that veterans tell their sprout friends to grab max tomestone gear anyway.

mini games like mount racing, hunting (not hunts, but an actual chase for a prey something similar to Behemoth Fate but of course less challenging and solo), triple triad etc..

The racing would be nice. I think they currently would do things like that via a sidequest but the issue is that makes them one-time only.

Triple Triad is actually a thing already. You can battle NPCs in most areas and you can also battle other players.

PvP Arenas

Many games do it but for whatever reason, SE always makes these instanced. A benefit of instances is that it limits participation so it's not too low nor too high, and can draw players from other worlds. The instanced areas they regularly add are based on areas in the open world though, like how Onsal Hakair is in the Azim Steppe.

"A Frosty reception" is the coolest and most fun Instanced Duty to date and i was so excited for quests like this until a friend informed me it got backlash for being Difficult and Frustrating.

Almost every interesting instanced duty they make gets this backlash, such as In From the Cold or stealth chasing NPCs on foot. Their solution was to nerf the "Very Easy" version of them, so if people fail it they can make it extremely easy. Unfortunately, it likely makes them not want to make other duties like that, and knowing SE they will avoid anything that casual players can't handle. But my wish is that they will make these duties anyway, ignore the complaints, and make a super easy version for them if they want to do it on easy mode.

[IvoryBadge]

I disagree that it should matter before DT anyway. The problem is they act like it matters when it doesn't. If they just accepted gear progression wasn't a thing in prior expansions, they could sync old dungeons to minimum item level. The reason they don't is to preserve "gear progression" despite that veterans tell their sprout friends to grab max tomestone gear anyway.

i think i phrased it poorly but what i meant is gearing level range within the expansion 91-100. definitely it shouldn't matter for past expansions for it won't be relevant by the level of latest expansion. it should matter for progressing the expansion, tome gear will be available by reaching max level.

[Kranel_San]

I said it once and I'll say it again. The devs shouldn't be afraid of integrating 'Exploration zones' into the overworld.

Let them become one and available from the expansion launch! Why gate one of the most MMO parts of this game, which is an MMO, behind several months of patches and as a side content?