FRU has been cleared without Tanks!

[ServerCollaps]

They'll just stop the limit break generation if there are no tanks or healers. This was the band-aid fix to keep Physical Ranged from being replaced by yet another Pictomancer in Dawntrail. It's much easier than fixing a broken battle system and making high-end content more interesting and unpredictable.

how would that affect fights like fru, that need no lb at all?

[Gullis]

#FFXIVTANKSTRIKE

[Maltothoris]

The thing that irks me is that it's the uneven enforcement. Look at this for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5MdZW1Ennw&t=1s

This was back when SMN had pets. Titan could tank ramuh ex without having to worry about doing the orbs to survive the tank buster. You did have to be careful about aggro management though. Then in one week after this was discovered, we got this. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post2267548

An issue in “The Striking Tree (Hard)” and “The Striking Tree (Extreme)”, wherein the damage taken by pets was abnormally low.

From this, it was pretty clear that they didn't like that Ramuh EX was cleared without tanks.

So I wouldn't be surprised if they updated FRU to where you couldn't simply cancel out P1's tbs.

[Mikey_R]

The thing that irks me is that it's the uneven enforcement. Look at this for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5MdZW1Ennw&t=1s

This was back when SMN had pets. Titan could tank ramuh ex without having to worry about doing the orbs to survive the tank buster. You did have to be careful about aggro management though. Then in one week after this was discovered, we got this. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post2267548



From this, it was pretty clear that they didn't like that Ramuh EX was cleared without tanks.

So I wouldn't be surprised if they updated FRU to where you couldn't simply cancel out P1's tbs.

The difference is, one was completed by a group of very skilled players and isn't going to impact the general population of players at all. Your average group isn't going to go in without tanks after all.

The other, the Ramuh Ex example, was a detriment to the playerbase as a whole. Tanks were getting excluded from groups because they were an active detriment to the group. Titan Egi could tank everything and not worry about tank mechanics at all. That is where the difference lies.

[Supersnow845]

The difference is, one was completed by a group of very skilled players and isn't going to impact the general population of players at all. Your average group isn't going to go in without tanks after all.

The other, the Ramuh Ex example, was a detriment to the playerbase as a whole. Tanks were getting excluded from groups because they were an active detriment to the group. Titan Egi could tank everything and not worry about tank mechanics at all. That is where the difference lies.

The optimal strategy of excluding healers from casual content unless doing enforced DF parties is certainly a detriment to the healer population and all you hear is crickets

[Mikey_R]

The optimal strategy of excluding healers from casual content unless doing enforced DF parties is certainly a detriment to the healer population and all you hear is crickets

Ah yes, the false comparison. I did think about making a comment on healers, but decided against it, however, since you commented so nicely;

When is the last time you saw someone put up a PF for casual content, let alone go through the effort to exclude healers? You don't, as you said, they use DF, so already off to a bad start.

So, the next question, when was the last time your average DF excluded healers from (on release) Extreme, Savage or Ultimate parties? I haven't known any time and, just looking at the PF on Chaos at this time, 1 for Valigarmanda Ex, 2 tanks 2 healers, Chaotic, 2 tanks and 2 healers per alliance party, Sphene, 2 tanks 2 healers, M1S, 2 tanks 2 healers, Byakko Unreal, 2 tanks 2 healers.

Obviously, that is a small snippet at a specific point in time, but if healers (and tanks) were being excluded because it made life easier, you would have thought they would do so.

Compare that to Ramuh EX where NOONE wanted a tank. You would not find a party as a tank. Titan Egi directly invalidated an entire role with no downsides. Everyone could do it. That is not the case here where not having a tank or healer is a massive detriment for your average group.

Do note that this does not mean there is not an issue with the healers or even the tanks, it is just that using a specific clear from a very skilled group of players that the vast majority would never be able to do is bad evidence to bring forward that there is an issue.

[Supersnow845]

Ah yes, the false comparison. I did think about making a comment on healers, but decided against it, however, since you commented so nicely;

When is the last time you saw someone put up a PF for casual content, let alone go through the effort to exclude healers? You don't, as you said, they use DF, so already off to a bad start.

So, the next question, when was the last time your average DF excluded healers from (on release) Extreme, Savage or Ultimate parties? I haven't known any time and, just looking at the PF on Chaos at this time, 1 for Valigarmanda Ex, 2 tanks 2 healers, Chaotic, 2 tanks and 2 healers per alliance party, Sphene, 2 tanks 2 healers, M1S, 2 tanks 2 healers, Byakko Unreal, 2 tanks 2 healers.

Obviously, that is a small snippet at a specific point in time, but if healers (and tanks) were being excluded because it made life easier, you would have thought they would do so.

Compare that to Ramuh EX where NOONE wanted a tank. You would not find a party as a tank. Titan Egi directly invalidated an entire role with no downsides. Everyone could do it. That is not the case here where not having a tank or healer is a massive detriment for your average group.

Do note that this does not mean there is not an issue with the healers or even the tanks, it is just that using a specific clear from a very skilled group of players that the vast majority would never be able to do is bad evidence to bring forward that there is an issue.

“Absolutely nobody wanted a tank”

This clear wasn’t even well known and was patched in less than a week. You could genuinely have blinked and you wouldn’t have even noticed that clear drama pass you by

Let’s not pretend it nuked the entire tank role from orbit.

Healerless clears of casual content is far more widespread and acted upon than the ramuh clear. Not to mention that healers are invalidated even when they are present; which is somehow even worse, who wants to be physically present AND not needed

[Valence]

It's pretty funny that the only way to threaten tanks and ensure other jobs aren't used is to use tank busters those days.
So what happens then if a DPS eats the buster? Just raise them.
Everything has turned so much into DDR at 99% uptime that bosses spend their time idle casting long winded DDR mechanics without even doing a single auto it's pathetic.

[Valence]

Because ff14 classes are balanced? Give me break.
Even pvp which has incredibly varied designs is better balanced than pve where everything is a copy of each other.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

3D Protocol: Deny. Dismiss. Downplay.

Amazing as always, I'm sure that's cute. Keep it up bruh, maybe one day we'll get to Ults being cleared on patch without DPS lmao. On a trinity game nonetheless.