FRU has been cleared without Tanks!

[Supersnow845]

If you have the choice of using Titan where all you have to do is keep it alive, or, 2 tanks where they have tank swap, avoid overcharging, hope the other party members do not steal their orbs, properly mitigating have proper positioning etc. Which one are you going to choose as the safe, less risky method.

If you are doing a dungeon, remember the skill gap between bottom and top is larger, is it not safer to have a healer? How about if the tank was a Dark Knight? Does that change things? You only see the healer as a detriment because it makes the run longer due to less DPS. Tanks would be excluded from Ramuh EX because they would also make the run longer, by not taking a tank, you bring more DPS, you skip more mechanics, making it safer. Literally everything is piling up in favour of Titan Egi, whereas there are still benefits in taking a healer in a dungeon, even if it is a safety net.

So yes in both runs it’s literally

“Do you meet the minimum requirements to exclude this role to make this run easier. If yes exclude this role for pure benefit”

The only benefit to not excluding the healer comes from if you don’t meet the minimum competency; which extreme pre excludes for

[Valence]

Having a healer isn't a detriment like having tanks in Ramuh EX would have been. If you want a simple comparison, it is that right there.

But having a healer is a detriment though. A pretty big one.

[Zarkovitch]

Good, you just need a picto still. Not good.

[BelegErkhten]

#TankStrike

This but unironically

[Vyrerus]

Aww when I heard this was cleared without tanks, somebody told me it was just healers. I was expecting an all healers clear. Sadge.

Anyway, XIV is baby town frolics gameplay wise since SHB, so it doesn't surprise me or anyone, I don't think.

[Kacho_Nacho]

This but unironically

Do it! Tanks need to speak up too. Start their own strike!

Let the YouTubers start talking about how two of the three roles are now up in arms in FFXIV.

Maybe that'll grab the attention of Square Enix's shareholders and force some change.

[Supersnow845]

Seriously tanks, demand your role mechanics back. The state of agro in 14 is hilariously bad

I’d support tanks being sick of being melees with training wheels

[Tint]

Seriously tanks, demand your role mechanics back. The state of agro in 14 is hilariously bad

I’d support tanks being sick of being melees with training wheels

Aggro was barely a role mechanic. Well, at least not since level 30 / 40 when you got your tank stance. There was barely any aggro problems when you did 1 or maybe 2 aggro combos and then dropped the stance for the rest of the fight.

The aggro management was done by the DDs and healers, so tanks could avoid using aggro skills. And of course Ninja.


What tanks actually lost is defensive cooldown management, crowd control, keeping debuffs active on the enemy, enemy placement, and a sense of risk reward by tanking without tank stance (which sounds contrary to the role fantasy of tanks, but at least you actually had to press your buttons to survive).

[Supersnow845]

Aggro was barely a role mechanic. Well, at least not since level 30 / 40 when you got your tank stance. There was barely any aggro problems when you did 1 or maybe 2 aggro combos and then dropped the stance for the rest of the fight.

The aggro management was done by the DDs and healers, so tanks could avoid using aggro skills. And of course Ninja.


What tanks actually lost is defensive cooldown management, crowd control, keeping debuffs active on the enemy, enemy placement, and a sense of risk reward by tanking without tank stance (which sounds contrary to the role fantasy of tanks, but at least you actually had to press your buttons to survive).

I’m saying “tanks demand agro back” not as in they lost it in ShB as in “why was agro always a NIN mechanic THEN they lost it entirely”

Tanks deserve actual agro management that isn’t offloaded to the NIN

[Azurarok]

There used to be a fair drawback to even swapping tank stances in the past too, right? 10s recast on Defiance/Deliverance, while Grit and Oaths were GCDs. They were all adjusted to a 3s recast in early EW, later to 2s. It kinda sounded like the penalty for messing up switching stances could've been a bit harsh and placed a sizeable burden on the rest of the party to me.

With a short recast it'd be a little bloaty to just have them essentially lock you out of using certain skills like cleric stance seemed to do, but I feel that can be avoided when they can significantly change the function of a skill and gave them a use in either stance, which sounds like was more the case for tank stances (it was also how EW PvP RDM's white/black shift worked).

Also does it even have to be a stance dancing on every tank? Could one job have specific skills to do enmity/defensive management at the cost of dps and no stance at all, while another uses the current simplified stance and defensive tools but have a more complex dps kit or somesuch?