Synodic Scribe's "The Steady Change in Writing..." Video

[Zackneifein]

That's interesting. For me it was the opposite. I only really started being truly invested in the game in SHB.
Now mind you, I don't think the WoL has to be the focus all the time (in fact I'd argue in EW we weren't the focus most of the time), but I want the WoL to feel like a part of the story. Ishikawa always did this really well imo. Making the player feel included in a way, something that was lacking for me until SHB and EW. Since I made my WoL an OC with backstory and all, I prefer it that way, and the Azem lore is one of the most interesting parts for me.

In DT I was often wondering why my WoL is even there, but that's a sentiment a lot of people share.

I want my WoL to have agency. Doesn't matter the WoL isn't the absolute focus of the story, but I want agency. If the WoL never was such a character, and never matterd in the story like in many other MMORPG I wouldn't care (and I probably wouldn't play FFXIV since a long time), but it's not the case so I care.

In ARR, we are starting our adventurer life, that's our agency.
In Heavensward, we want to help the people that helped us at our lowest because the WoL is a gentle soul.
In Stormblood, we have to stop Garlemald in an inevitable war then we became the only one capable of stopping Zenos.
In Shadowbringer, we are the only one able to confront the Lightwardens.
In 5.x we have to help the Scion go back to the Source because they are our friends.
In Endwalker we have to save the world.
And for most of what's over, most of the time there were things only we could do, mainly the Primals or confronting foes too powerful for anyone else, but also travelling between the First and the Source or going to Elpis.

In 6.x, we wanted to have an adventure and what happened after that is only the consequences (and we are starting to lose some agency to Zero since it's with her power that the story can progress, yet we are still mentoring Zero about being a human again and we are the one confronting the mightiest foes).
And in Dawntrail... what's our agency ? An adventure ? Tural is a pacified land. A vacation ? Nah, we are babysitting someone, it's not what I call a vacation. Being a mentor ? Not only we don't mentor Wuk Lamat but she don't need it. Saving the world ? Yeah maybe, but far too late in the story. And more importantly is there anything done in the MSQ that specificaly required the WoL ? No.

And that's the main problem. It's not just that the focus isn't on the WoL, it can work that way. It's that the WoL isn't relevant at all and didn't even have it's moment to shine (truely shine, the 2 - 3 cutscenes where the WoL is supposed to be "badass" or somes lines about being "dangerous" aren't enough at all).
There is already more agency for the WoL in the Raid content that in all the MSQ combined.

[Exmo]

In Heavensward, we accompany a small party of people on their quest to end a war.
In Stormblood, we accompany a small party of people in their quest to stop a war.
In Shadowbringers, we're abducted and told we are the only person who can save the world, so we do what we're told.

Where's the perceived player agency in these stories? If it's simply that you wanted to do what you were doing, versus in DT where you didn't want to do what you were doing, that's circular reasoning.

[Zackneifein]

In Heavensward, we accompany a small party of people on their quest to end a war.
In Stormblood, we accompany a small party of people in their quest to stop a war.
In Shadowbringers, we're abducted and told we are the only person who can save the world, so we do what we're told.

Where's the perceived player agency in these stories? If it's simply that you wanted to do what you were doing, versus in DT where you didn't want to do what you were doing, that's circular reasoning.

We don't just accompany a small party of people on their quest to end the war. There is a clear reason for that : once again they sheltered us when the Scions were at their lowest since the massacre of the Walking Sand. And there is the Ascians and more precisely Lahabrea that is our mortal ennemy at this time, we know he is behind all that one way or another.
In Stormblood the war is here, inevitable and it's Eorzea, our place that is menaced. Then Zenos appears very early in the story and kick our ass, cimenting not only the WoL have to get revenge for that, but also that they are the only one capable to stop him.
In Shadowbringer, yes it may seems similar to Dawntrail... but it's also cimented early in the story that the WoL is the ONLY chance for the First. And even if we refused to help, helping the Scion going back to the Source is agency enough.

The agency is either the WoL or there allies or friends are in danger or the WoL is the only one who can solve the problem.

In Dawntrail ? Why help Wuk Lamat ? Do the WoL is useful for anything more than a competent adventurer like Hoary Boulder could have been ? No.
There could have been agency, but never was. Even in the "world ending threat", the WoL seems not that necessary.

[Exmo]

In Dawntrail ? Why help Wuk Lamat ?

There are all sorts of reasons you could come up with to answer that, in the same way you came up with justifications for the other expansions.

It sounds like you're using "agency" in an idiosyncratic way. I'll be honest, it doesn't make much sense to me - you feel there's plenty of player agency in stories where the player character is the only one who can do a certain thing and therefore is compelled to do it? Surely that's when the player would feel the least agency then.

At the end of the day I just don't think player agency is a worthwhile metric of quality. It's like talking about the redness of an apple

[Bekuta]

I personally am content to not be the hero of the universe. I am content with the idea of being just a person in this fantasy world. While many people agree with me on this, many people do not.

However, since we are the hero of the universe, it's obnoxious to suddenly not be and pretend like we aren't the one to take out Sphene. That's what we do now. Fortunately, Yoshi-P has said the Warrior of Light will return to being the hero of the world very soon.

I am content for what we do to be much simpler though and I think that is needed in order to reset our power. For example, we could get locked in a prison for some weeks which weakens our physical strength and has a lasting impact on it as our aetherial aptitude is experimented on like Krile was, then we escape and go after a run-of-the-mill thief and fight their minions through the dungeons, culminating in a simple duel with them at the end.

I don't think we need the scions there are at all and we could just go alone (like 6.1's patch art falsely suggested we would), I think they are just concerned that different players are attached to different scions. But they really should just send us somewhere alone.

I'd be okay with not being the hero of the universe, but we still need to be the main character in our story. Making Wuk Lamat the majority of the focus, and having her be the one to take down the big bad is so bad its almost insulting.

[Zackneifein]

There are all sorts of reasons you could come up with to answer that, in the same way you came up with justifications for the other expansions.

It sounds like you're using "agency" in an idiosyncratic way. I'll be honest, it doesn't make much sense to me - you feel there's plenty of player agency in stories where the player character is the only one who can do a certain thing and therefore is compelled to do it? Surely that's when the player would feel the least agency then.

At the end of the day I just don't think player agency is a worthwhile metric of quality. It's like talking about the redness of an apple

Wuk Lamat isn't our friend. She is barely someone we know. The current situation of Tural is unknown to us but nothing is said about it being problematic or dangerous for the World. That's why they planted another agency for the WoL: adventure and all the marketing was about that (so much that until the very end, Wuk Lamat was absent from it).
I was hyped for that, and until lvl 91 I was waiting for it, as the WoL could be. But at the end there was nothing about adventure and that's what I'm criticizing here. The only reason for us to go to Tural fell flat.

You don't seem to care that the WoL have a role in the story, I do. That's why I prefer MMORPG like GW2 or SWTOR to WoW or DAoC.

That may be the difference between us. Once again, ARR couldn't have been resolved without the WoL.

Same for Heavensward, same for Stormblood, same for Shadowbringers and Endwalker. It doesn't mean the WoL do everything, it doesn't mean the focus is always on the WoL but the WoL matter.
Dawntrail could have been exactly the same with any elite adventurer replacing the WoL and the WoL had no reason to take Wuk Lamat side. The WoL is narratively just a bodyguard (or a cheerleader) and technically a cameraman.

And to be clear, agency doesn't mean "always a stronger baddies", even without making the WoL weaker, there is many way to render the WoL powerless or near powerless, mainly because the WoL isn't Zenos and isn't some kind of dictator that would just murder everyone on sight. Politics and facing army always was the WoL weakness, who excel in 1v1 (or 8v1).

[Exmo]

Dawntrail could have been exactly the same with any elite adventurer replacing the WoL and the WoL had no reason to take Wuk Lamat side. The WoL is narratively just a bodyguard (or a cheerleader) and technically a cameraman.

Again, this is true of all the expansions.

[Zackneifein]

Again, this is true of all the expansions.

Can you explain me how ?

Anyone but the WoL die against Ultima Arma since it's defeat is only allowed due to the collection of cristal the WoL recovered.
There isn't any adventurer, even with the Benediction of Light or Echo, strong enough to defeat Thordan. And narratively there isn't a reason for an adventurer to concern themself for Ishgard fate after Ishgard being secluded for so long.
Nobody can stand against Zenos but the WoL.
Nobody could have defeated the Lightwarden and contain the Light but the WoL. Like Graha said himself "Why you ? Why not you ? Had I chosen another, we would never have made it this far". Not even talking about the fact that the "hero" of the First is the WoL shard.
The WoL is in the "time loop" of Elpis with Venat.

Just saying "lol no" to everything I said without more explanation isn't very relevant. You can delude yourself as much as you want but it's a fact that never the WoL has so much NOT mattered in the story than in Dawntrail, even at it's lowest point. The WoL even matter more in Hildibrand story than in Wuk Lamat story.

[Exmo]

Can you explain me how ?

Anyone but the WoL die against Ultima Arma since it's defeat is only allowed due to the collection of cristal the WoL recovered.
There isn't any adventurer, even with the Benediction of Light or Echo, strong enough to defeat Thordan. And narratively there isn't a reason for an adventurer to concern themself for Ishgard fate after Ishgard being secluded for so long.
Nobody can stand against Zenos but the WoL.
Nobody could have defeated the Lightwarden and contain the Light but the WoL. Like Graha said himself "Why you ? Why not you ? Had I chosen another, we would never have made it this far". Not even talking about the fact that the "hero" of the First is the WoL shard.
The WoL is in the "time loop" of Elpis with Venat.

All of this amounts to "right place, right time". We never made some pivotal decision that landed us there. We were always just going with the flow and doing what we were told to do. This is the opposite of what player agency describes.

In ShB and EW the game leans into the WoL as this "chosen one" by virtue of being a shard of Azem. But again, this has nothing to do with player agency.

The WoL even matter more in Hildibrand story than in Wuk Lamat story.

O_o

Nah.

[Auro_Seldaris]

Here's my controversial take as someone midway through EW. ARR (despite its weak main narrative) through Stormblood felt like playing inside an amazing fantasy novel. I genuinely think Stormblood gave us a bona fide masterclass in handling themes of imperialism and nationhood.

I also believe ARR through Stormblood is the real 'trilogy' of the Hydaelyn saga, despite most people considering it to be Stormblood through EW. But to be fair, I haven’t finished EW yet.

Anyway, starting with Shadowbringers, the writing became so focused on plotplotplot and big reveals that it just started to feel like… well, a video game (whoa). But seriously, somewhere along the line, the writers stopped caring about giving the people and world of FFXIV sociological depth.

Stormblood has practically nothing to do with Hydaelyn and Zodiark though. Why would you even consider it part of the story? It's the "Boring middle part" that ultimately matters very little in the end.