Synodic Scribe's "The Steady Change in Writing..." Video

[Matrinka]

The game has started to play it so safe that it has become boring. I want to go back to being unsure of what the future will bring. At this point, the formula is predictable.

What set the tone of Dawntrail, for me, wasn't the colorful intro video, but what felt like an endless amount of conversations and having to be so passive in the early story. There was nothing to break up the monotony of teleporting, finding the NPC, then chatting. Over and over and over again. I wanted to DO something, not just read what felt like endless chat boxes or listen to long cut scenes. I felt like I was watching an interactive novel rather than playing a video game.

[Valence]

I'll say it again, one of the two main issues with the MSQ aren't new and have been part of every expansion whatsoever, and they really pull back any attempt at getting a spectacular story no matter the expansion's success. Some of the most loved expansions are for the reasons cited in the OP, but they're not exempt to those absolute failures:

1) The rigid formulaic structure tied to the MMO design of each expansion that is built around the need to have exactly 6 main areas, which is fair, but they do not seem able to get out of the stiffing rigidity it can bring. Every area is treated as a place to explore no matter what, in three steps: first, the main character and the scions have to explore and take the measure of the area, learn about its problems, its basic layout and societies, which every time will imply a long series of quests "talk to NPCs around the town to learn more"; second, they will reconvene and talk back and forth between the main character and the scions, and some NPCs, in order to perhaps come with solutions to progress and solve issues; and third, you finally get into the thick of things and start moving the plot forward to completion in the area before moving to the next. This is so formulaic that it not only breaks most elements of surprise, but also brings a heavy feeling of tedium, and also really restricts the story to one type of story: explore an area, investigate, confront the baddies, rince and repeat.

2) Which ties to the absolutely crippling problem that is a true disease of a lot of RPGs: only the main character, the WoL, matters in this world except in very rare instances. Perhaps some expansions like DT put all the story spotlight above a specific NPC like Wuk Lamat, but it was still always the WoL talking to Wuk Lamat. When it's not this, it's the WoL talking to other NPCs, mostly the Scions or commanders, and they do act as quest givers mechanically, reflecting on things, solving problems and sending the WoL directions. They act like robots, they only have one thing in mind: saving the world from injustice or woes. They do not think like real humans, do not talk between each other except in way too rare occasions (like Thancred/Urianger in Many Fires in DT), they are only there to talk to the WoL, and more often than not, it's to solve world problems, or in more uncommon cases, muse about one or another woe. FF16 is also very guilty of this. Compare to older classic FF titles with lively, human companions with their own dreams and day to day agency, discussions, etc, and you'll see what I mean.

[Daralii]

For me the weakest part of DT wasn't necessarily "too much Wuk Lamat" - that itself is a symptom of the deeper problem, which was less reliance on the ensemble cast.

We didn't get enough twin banter. We didn't get enough conversations between people other than ourselves and the lead NPCs. Part of this is because of Erenville's taciturn nature; he internalized his emotions to the point where he faded into the background too much.

My favorite bits of, say, Heavensward, were when Estinien and Ysayle were arguing with each other, and Alphinaud was doing his best to stop them from grabbing each other's throats. Or similarly in Shadowbringers, when Alisae gets pissed off at Alphinaud and lifts him up by his lapels.

The conflict doesn't always have to be a bigger bad! It can be the personalities of characters clashing. Sigurd hating Moogles. Gerolt griping about Rowena.

The closest we got to this was the bullying from Bakool Ja Ja.... but he traveled with us for all of one zone, and by then he'd already heel-face-turned and was an ally.

It's been happening over the course of several expansions, but they've been sanding down the parts of characters' personalities that could potentially cause conflict with other allies, so the inter-group dynamics are completely dead.

[Jeeqbit]

It's been happening over the course of several expansions, but they've been sanding down the parts of characters' personalities that could potentially cause conflict with other allies, so the inter-group dynamics are completely dead.

I think it makes sense to a degree. To give a real-world example, my brother was quite difficult to deal with but over the years he has matured and become more understanding (Covid definitely helped, because being bored led to educating himself about things). So people do often reduce their conflicts over time as their understanding and experience increases.

It's also not realistic to have Thancred go up against the Warrior of Light. He's knows the Warrior of Light will win. Given everything they've been through, they know their little self can't hope to win, so they can't oppose you.

But that's why they need to introduce new characters and have said character not just nod their heads in the exact same way. These new characters have not seen what the Warrior of Light has done first hand, and may not be a believer and just want to be arrogant and confident in themselves.

[Gaddes]

Player focus I think is one of the main keys of successful storytelling in FFXIV, and as OP's video says a few times, the most popular expansions are the one where the WoL is still the focal point and the character that pushes the story forward. Any time that importance is pulled away, whether it be Lyse or Wuk or whoever, the overall story suffers for it. I don't even think we specifically need the Scions clustering around us constantly as some people seem to want; we just need to be the main focus again. I'm sure it sounds narcissist, but we really are more connected when the game makes us feel like we made a difference in that scenario. FFXIV players don't want to feel like tag-alongs or bodyguards; they want to feel like the character that affects the greatest change.

[Jeeqbit]

I personally am content to not be the hero of the universe. I am content with the idea of being just a person in this fantasy world. While many people agree with me on this, many people do not.

However, since we are the hero of the universe, it's obnoxious to suddenly not be and pretend like we aren't the one to take out Sphene. That's what we do now. Fortunately, Yoshi-P has said the Warrior of Light will return to being the hero of the world very soon.

I am content for what we do to be much simpler though and I think that is needed in order to reset our power. For example, we could get locked in a prison for some weeks which weakens our physical strength and has a lasting impact on it as our aetherial aptitude is experimented on like Krile was, then we escape and go after a run-of-the-mill thief and fight their minions through the dungeons, culminating in a simple duel with them at the end.

I don't think we need the scions there are at all and we could just go alone (like 6.1's patch art falsely suggested we would), I think they are just concerned that different players are attached to different scions. But they really should just send us somewhere alone.

[Red-thunder]

Any time that importance is pulled away, whether it be Lyse or Wuk or whoever, the overall story suffers for it.

I disagree. A lot of people care about the importance of their WoL but I don't. I'm fine with the world not revolving around him.

Stormblood had a decent story, although it was pretty disjointed because of the split. Yotsuyu was probably the most nuanced villain they've made in this game, on par with Emet Selch.

Dawntrail is in a league of its own, and it's not because Wuk Lamat is the main character. It's because the writing is childish. The cultures are walking tropes. The villains are copy-pasted from ShB and EW. Zoraal Ja had a lot of potential but they neglected to develop him.

There is a lot of similarity between Dawntrail and Dragon Age: Veilguard. The biggest one is the infantilization of the entire story. The one single time things got a bit more mature, at around Lv95, it was quickly resolved with a "friendship conquers everything" and sends us to a Western cowboy shootout with rubber bullets. But to me this has been a thing since ShB, arguably SB. It's just that ShB and EW were more cohesive and had more depth, but it was still childish at its core because of its poor writing.

The "dark" scenes in ShB and EW feel very artificial and plastic, because they are. Tesleen was put there to shock you and to build stakes. But if you think about it just a little the whole artifice falls flat because she was only there to build stakes. She was introduced and unceremoniously killed off. Her character exists just to shock you. A lot of the "mature" story beats in ShB and EW had little to no build up. Elidibus' retcon was another egregious example of this. The writers had to cut off Elidibus' past story and place the new him in a quarantined little box so that their story beat can make sense. Ishikawa is a capable short story writer, but she is terrible at writing long, grandiose epics. There are such examples before ShB too (Moenbryda), but they were rarer back then.

The situation gets even worse in DT, because now it is both artificial and lacks depth. At least under Ishikawa if you don't think too much about the worldbuilding it's a feel good story. But in DT entire tribes are introduced not to shock you or to introduce some nuanced take on humanity, but to give you quests about trading coins because the entire tribe exists just to trade....

[Daralii]

Player focus I think is one of the main keys of successful storytelling in FFXIV, and as OP's video says a few times, the most popular expansions are the one where the WoL is still the focal point and the character that pushes the story forward. Any time that importance is pulled away, whether it be Lyse or Wuk or whoever, the overall story suffers for it. I don't even think we specifically need the Scions clustering around us constantly as some people seem to want; we just need to be the main focus again. I'm sure it sounds narcissist, but we really are more connected when the game makes us feel like we made a difference in that scenario. FFXIV players don't want to feel like tag-alongs or bodyguards; they want to feel like the character that affects the greatest change.

Yoshida said early on that when the WoL moves, the world moves. There should be a strong supporting cast with their own arcs(ShB did this fairly well), but the WoL shouldn't just be a brainless blunt instrument. This is especially true now that the overarching story is supposed to revolve around the WoL's adventures as we try to carry the legacy of the Ancients.

[Gaddes]

Yoshida said early on that when the WoL moves, the world moves. There should be a strong supporting cast with their own arcs(ShB did this fairly well), but the WoL shouldn't just be a brainless blunt instrument. This is especially true now that the overarching story is supposed to revolve around the WoL's adventures as we try to carry the legacy of the Ancients.

Well then I hope we return to the WoL moving the world, because he certainly felt like a brainless blunt instrument in much of DT.

[Exmo]

Player focus I think is one of the main keys of successful storytelling in FFXIV, and as OP's video says a few times, the most popular expansions are the one where the WoL is still the focal point and the character that pushes the story forward. Any time that importance is pulled away, whether it be Lyse or Wuk or whoever, the overall story suffers for it. I don't even think we specifically need the Scions clustering around us constantly as some people seem to want; we just need to be the main focus again. I'm sure it sounds narcissist, but we really are more connected when the game makes us feel like we made a difference in that scenario. FFXIV players don't want to feel like tag-alongs or bodyguards; they want to feel like the character that affects the greatest change.

On the contrary, lots of people liked the idea of the WoL being a mentor in DT and wished it had been leaned into more.