Synodic Scribe's "The Steady Change in Writing..." Video

[JohnLakeside]

Adding to this, a lot of people do not remember how the story felt until ShB showed up because they started playing after.
Before SHB happened, the WoL was the blandest, derplandest character ever made. It was so much designed so that and I quote "every player could insert themselves in its skin and identify as the main protagonist" that it was literally a blank cardboard that was just doing chores for the scions. The WoL had no story, no personality, no voice, nothing. It was just there, as Yoko Taro said, exercising its neck muscles toned by a lifetime of nodding. ShB has been the first time where they put the spotlight over the actual story of the WoL and started inserting it into the overarching plot, but before this? There was no Azem, there was nothing. The spotlight has never been on the WoL before except when a primal needed be killed, let's be real.

I preferred it when the WoL wasn’t such a focal point. I think of it like a book because, in a book, you—the reader—aren’t the main character. In fact, you’re not a character at all. That’s one of the reasons ARR through SB felt so much like a novel—except instead of reading it, we were playing it. I had never experienced anything as immersive as that in all my years of media consumption. Great times.

[Valence]

I preferred it when the WoL wasn’t such a focal point. I think of it like a book because, in a book, you—the reader—aren’t the main character. In fact, you’re not a character at all. That’s one of the reasons ARR through SB felt so much like a novel—except instead of reading it, we were playing it. I had never experienced anything as immersive as that in all my years of media consumption. Great times.

I do not mind this necessarily, but the main problem I had was that the only side that had actual development tended to be the side of the villains, where the scions especially weren't much better off than the WoL for the simple reason that 1) they're walking tropes and line in animes everything they do is informed by their primary trope and 2) the character never or rarely actually focuses on anything more personal than "laser focus on the main story threat of the moment". The world building has been stellar and that's what turned me into a huge loremonger back in the day when I started playing, but the narration and writing? The language mastery is great, but the writing is dry and feels detached from portraying actual human beings instead of poster heroes.

[Mondschnee]

I preferred it when the WoL wasn’t such a focal point. I think of it like a book because, in a book, you—the reader—aren’t the main character. In fact, you’re not a character at all. That’s one of the reasons ARR through SB felt so much like a novel—except instead of reading it, we were playing it. I had never experienced anything as immersive as that in all my years of media consumption. Great times.

That's interesting. For me it was the opposite. I only really started being truly invested in the game in SHB.
Now mind you, I don't think the WoL has to be the focus all the time (in fact I'd argue in EW we weren't the focus most of the time), but I want the WoL to feel like a part of the story. Ishikawa always did this really well imo. Making the player feel included in a way, something that was lacking for me until SHB and EW. Since I made my WoL an OC with backstory and all, I prefer it that way, and the Azem lore is one of the most interesting parts for me.

In DT I was often wondering why my WoL is even there, but that's a sentiment a lot of people share.

[Zackneifein]

That's interesting. For me it was the opposite. I only really started being truly invested in the game in SHB.
Now mind you, I don't think the WoL has to be the focus all the time (in fact I'd argue in EW we weren't the focus most of the time), but I want the WoL to feel like a part of the story. Ishikawa always did this really well imo. Making the player feel included in a way, something that was lacking for me until SHB and EW. Since I made my WoL an OC with backstory and all, I prefer it that way, and the Azem lore is one of the most interesting parts for me.

In DT I was often wondering why my WoL is even there, but that's a sentiment a lot of people share.

I want my WoL to have agency. Doesn't matter the WoL isn't the absolute focus of the story, but I want agency. If the WoL never was such a character, and never matterd in the story like in many other MMORPG I wouldn't care (and I probably wouldn't play FFXIV since a long time), but it's not the case so I care.

In ARR, we are starting our adventurer life, that's our agency.
In Heavensward, we want to help the people that helped us at our lowest because the WoL is a gentle soul.
In Stormblood, we have to stop Garlemald in an inevitable war then we became the only one capable of stopping Zenos.
In Shadowbringer, we are the only one able to confront the Lightwardens.
In 5.x we have to help the Scion go back to the Source because they are our friends.
In Endwalker we have to save the world.
And for most of what's over, most of the time there were things only we could do, mainly the Primals or confronting foes too powerful for anyone else, but also travelling between the First and the Source or going to Elpis.

In 6.x, we wanted to have an adventure and what happened after that is only the consequences (and we are starting to lose some agency to Zero since it's with her power that the story can progress, yet we are still mentoring Zero about being a human again and we are the one confronting the mightiest foes).
And in Dawntrail... what's our agency ? An adventure ? Tural is a pacified land. A vacation ? Nah, we are babysitting someone, it's not what I call a vacation. Being a mentor ? Not only we don't mentor Wuk Lamat but she don't need it. Saving the world ? Yeah maybe, but far too late in the story. And more importantly is there anything done in the MSQ that specificaly required the WoL ? No.

And that's the main problem. It's not just that the focus isn't on the WoL, it can work that way. It's that the WoL isn't relevant at all and didn't even have it's moment to shine (truely shine, the 2 - 3 cutscenes where the WoL is supposed to be "badass" or somes lines about being "dangerous" aren't enough at all).
There is already more agency for the WoL in the Raid content that in all the MSQ combined.

[Carin-Eri]

And that's the main problem. It's not just that the focus isn't on the WoL, it can work that way. It's that the WoL isn't relevant at all and didn't even have it's moment to shine (truely shine, the 2 - 3 cutscenes where the WoL is supposed to be "badass" or somes lines about being "dangerous" aren't enough at all).
There is already more agency for the WoL in the Raid content that in all the MSQ combined.

Apologies for repeating something I've said before, but it's certainly relevant in this context.

I didn't hate Dawntrail, personally. I actually enjoyed it for the most part. However, as you've said, it did feel like any moment the Warrior of Light could've been more relevant to the plot was downplayed. And, in my opinion, the very worst offender in this respect was the dialogue at the start of the Interphos trial, where Queen Eternal identifies us as "the single greatest threat". And honestly? I thought the first half of that fight was awesome.... until the whole thing was ruined by the total contradiction of that "single greatest threat" statement - namely having Wuk Lamat appear midway through the fight and present us with a unnecessary 'here I come to save the day!' moment.
The worst element of it all was that it didn't actually change anything and took the wind out of the sails of the fight (for me at least). And worst of all? Narratively, it didn't really make a difference - all we got was a "I won't change my mind" moment and then Wuk Lamat turning Super Saiyan, demoting us into her little helpers.

It really annoyed me - I'd love to know why the hell the writers couldn't sideline Wuk Lamat just once, particularly considering Queen Eternal's opening statement!

[Auro_Seldaris]

Apologies for repeating something I've said before, but it's certainly relevant in this context.

I didn't hate Dawntrail, personally. I actually enjoyed it for the most part. However, as you've said, it did feel like any moment the Warrior of Light could've been more relevant to the plot was downplayed. And, in my opinion, the very worst offender in this respect was the dialogue at the start of the Interphos trial, where Queen Eternal identifies us as "the single greatest threat". And honestly? I thought the first half of that fight was awesome.... until the whole thing was ruined by the total contradiction of that "single greatest threat" statement - namely having Wuk Lamat appear midway through the fight and present us with a unnecessary 'here I come to save the day!' moment.
The worst element of it all was that it didn't actually change anything and took the wind out of the sails of the fight (for me at least). And worst of all? Narratively, it didn't really make a difference - all we got was a "I won't change my mind" moment and then Wuk Lamat turning Super Saiyan, demoting us into her little helpers.

It really annoyed me - I'd love to know why the hell the writers couldn't sideline Wuk Lamat just once, particularly considering Queen Eternal's opening statement!

What really genuinely pissed me off was the buff. I'm not inspired by you, Wuk Lamat, because you're not that inspiring. I was actually offended by the implication that I, the Warrior of Light, Savior of Etheirys, slayer of the embodiment of despair... was inspired by her.

Talk about taking away character agency , what if I don't want to like her?

If that's what he wanted to do, he absolutly failed.
The WoL is everything but a blank character. And even then, "agency" in defining a personality for a character has nothing to do with "agency" in the story.

This is how we end up with such bland characterization. They do something - the WoL clenching their fist, Y'shtola and her magical girl summons, etc, - and the community has an absolute shitfit about it. Yoshida apologizes for actually trying to make these characters.. well, characters, so they never do it again.

[Daralii]

What really genuinely pissed me off was the buff. I'm not inspired by you, Wuk Lamat, because you're not that inspiring. I was actually offended by the implication that I, the Warrior of Light, Savior of Etheirys, slayer of the embodiment of despair... was inspired by her.

Talk about taking away character agency , what if I don't want to like her?

As per Yoshida, she's actually an amazing character and we just don't get it. Not liking her isn't allowed.

[Auro_Seldaris]

I preferred it when the WoL wasn’t such a focal point. I think of it like a book because, in a book, you—the reader—aren’t the main character. In fact, you’re not a character at all. That’s one of the reasons ARR through SB felt so much like a novel—except instead of reading it, we were playing it. I had never experienced anything as immersive as that in all my years of media consumption. Great times.

It is not a book.
It is a video game.

The interactivity is a fundamental part of the experience. If you want a novel-type experience where you're a third-party observer and not an actual part of the story, go read a novel then.

Why do people come play FFXIV when they know how focused on the WoL it is? There's another MMO you can play where you're not the main character, and never have been, it's called World of Warcraft. If that's what you want out of a story, then perhaps you should check that out. I hate this mentality of "bringing the WoW mediocrity over here". Please leave those of us who want our character to be important to enjoy the game where we ARE important in peace, instead of forcing what we don't want on us, thank you. It was bad enough in Dawntrail, I don't want more of that.

Also, I kind of feel like you're having a basic media literacy problem here, because it's been pretty clear since ARR that you're special in SOME way. Why wouldn't the Eikon Slayer - one of only a handful of people to be able to go toe to toe with primals and come out not only with their brain unscrambled, but victorious to boot - be a main character in the story? As a Star Trek fan, I do enjoy when the entire ensemble gets to shine, but to say that Kirk, or Picard, or Sisko aren't the main character would be silly and disingenuous. Same here - I like it best when the entire cast gets some good moments and time in the spotlight, but to say that our character isn't or shouldn't be important is silly and disingeunous.

Speaking of things I don't like... I dislike this Yoshida-forced insistence on the WoL just being some "Random adventurer" again. This constantly referring to us not as the Warrior of Light, but the "Champion of Eorzea" nonsense. They tried it in 6.x, they tried it in 7.0, you can tell this is someone on the team's pet idea (probably Yoshida himself). It's being forced and it's not working, they need to stop. You can't put this cat back in the bag.

[Kandraxx]

This guy saying 'in WoW you're a nobody and not the main character go play that' lmao. You realize that all the big ticket characters literally licked the player's boots ever since WotLK 2008 right?

How about stop talking about a game you obviously never played and only refer to as a means of perceived +coolness factor?

[Zackneifein]

This guy saying 'in WoW you're a nobody and not the main character go play that' lmao. You realize that all the big ticket characters literally licked the player's boots ever since WotLK 2008 right?

How about stop talking about a game you obviously never played and only refer to as a means of perceived +coolness factor?

Oh yeah ?

You mean the game where all the boss killed or feats have been given to NPC and "unnamed adventurers" ?
The game where my Paladin who still is the Highlord of the Silverhand was attacked by Paladin of the Silverhand on the order of Turalyon without explanation of what happened since the end of Legion ?
The NPC I worked with mysteriously forgot about me from one expansion to another ?
The game where the player is absent for any cutscenes of importance until very recently ?

I agree that since MOP more than WoTLK, WoW try to make the Adventurer more important "lore wise" since they have understood that's something a lot of people like, but they aren't even close as to be the main character, even in Legion where they are acknowledge the most as a Leader of a faction, Illidan is the MC by far. And it's because by it's design making any new player able to play the last content almost immediatly, they can create a "true" continuity for the Adventurer tale and how the world remember them. Yes the adventurer is more than the grunt he was during Vanilla or BC but it's still impossible for Blizzard to make it work correctly.

It's not even close to the integration of the WoL or the Commander (Wayfinder now I guess) in the story of FFXIV or GW2.

So please, tell me more about the "game I obviously never played".