Synodic Scribe's "The Steady Change in Writing..." Video

[Kandraxx]

This guy saying 'in WoW you're a nobody and not the main character go play that' lmao. You realize that all the big ticket characters literally licked the player's boots ever since WotLK 2008 right?

How about stop talking about a game you obviously never played and only refer to as a means of perceived +coolness factor?

[Zackneifein]

This guy saying 'in WoW you're a nobody and not the main character go play that' lmao. You realize that all the big ticket characters literally licked the player's boots ever since WotLK 2008 right?

How about stop talking about a game you obviously never played and only refer to as a means of perceived +coolness factor?

Oh yeah ?

You mean the game where all the boss killed or feats have been given to NPC and "unnamed adventurers" ?
The game where my Paladin who still is the Highlord of the Silverhand was attacked by Paladin of the Silverhand on the order of Turalyon without explanation of what happened since the end of Legion ?
The NPC I worked with mysteriously forgot about me from one expansion to another ?
The game where the player is absent for any cutscenes of importance until very recently ?

I agree that since MOP more than WoTLK, WoW try to make the Adventurer more important "lore wise" since they have understood that's something a lot of people like, but they aren't even close as to be the main character, even in Legion where they are acknowledge the most as a Leader of a faction, Illidan is the MC by far. And it's because by it's design making any new player able to play the last content almost immediatly, they can create a "true" continuity for the Adventurer tale and how the world remember them. Yes the adventurer is more than the grunt he was during Vanilla or BC but it's still impossible for Blizzard to make it work correctly.

It's not even close to the integration of the WoL or the Commander (Wayfinder now I guess) in the story of FFXIV or GW2.

So please, tell me more about the "game I obviously never played".

[JohnLakeside]

It is not a book.
It is a video game.

The interactivity is a fundamental part of the experience. If you want a novel-type experience where you're a third-party observer and not an actual part of the story, go read a novel then.

Why do people come play FFXIV when they know how focused on the WoL it is? There's another MMO you can play where you're not the main character, and never have been, it's called World of Warcraft. If that's what you want out of a story, then perhaps you should check that out. I hate this mentality of "bringing the WoW mediocrity over here". Please leave those of us who want our character to be important to enjoy the game where we ARE important in peace, instead of forcing what we don't want on us, thank you. It was bad enough in Dawntrail, I don't want more of that.

Also, I kind of feel like you're having a basic media literacy problem here, because it's been pretty clear since ARR that you're special in SOME way. Why wouldn't the Eikon Slayer - one of only a handful of people to be able to go toe to toe with primals and come out not only with their brain unscrambled, but victorious to boot - be a main character in the story? As a Star Trek fan, I do enjoy when the entire ensemble gets to shine, but to say that Kirk, or Picard, or Sisko aren't the main character would be silly and disingenuous. Same here - I like it best when the entire cast gets some good moments and time in the spotlight, but to say that our character isn't or shouldn't be important is silly and disingeunous.

Speaking of things I don't like... I dislike this Yoshida-forced insistence on the WoL just being some "Random adventurer" again. This constantly referring to us not as the Warrior of Light, but the "Champion of Eorzea" nonsense. They tried it in 6.x, they tried it in 7.0, you can tell this is someone on the team's pet idea (probably Yoshida himself). It's being forced and it's not working, they need to stop. You can't put this cat back in the bag.

I'm still on EW, but my issue is that the WoL only feels like the main character because he is us, the player. There’s maybe a meta element to it, but I just don’t find it satisfying.

Outside of the DRK quests, he has very little of what can be seen as agency. We rarely get a meaningful peek inside his head, and our dialogue options are almost always generic, lacking emotional depth or complexity. So yes, obviously he’s the MC, but he doesn’t feel like a true character in the same way that Yotsuyu or Emet do.

[JohnLakeside]

There was a moment in Heavensward where the Warrior of Light clenched their fists, seemingly about to strike Emmanellain, before Thancred stepped in and did it instead. It was one of the rare times our character showed real emotion. Later, Yoshi-P apologized for this, acknowledging that it took too much agency away from how players felt their characters would have reacted. He even stated he wouldn’t do it again.

See, now this was a great moment. This is the one of the few times where the WOL has shown complexity. That he was about to do something, but then didn't. He had to control himself. Whereas every other time WOL clenches his fist, its during the most obvious of moments.

[Merrigan]

See, now this was a great moment. This is the one of the few times where the WOL has shown complexity. That he was about to do something, but then didn't. He had to control himself. Whereas every other time WOL clenches his fist, its during the most obvious of moments.

It's a question of player expectations here. You see, typically, these are moments that I don't appreciate.

I don't play an MMOORPG character the way I play, say, Geralt in The Witcher. Geralt is a pre-existing character. He has his character, his quirks, his liabilities, and the reactions that are beyond my control are perfectly valid in that sense.

The WOL is, for me, a character similar to those I play as in a game of Dnd. It's a character I imagine from start to finish, whose personality I shape... So any intervention of the ‘clench your fists in rage’ type is exactly as Yoshi-P pointed out: an interference in my gameplay. Here, the only option I'd be happy with is the choice of punching this young aristocrat in the face - or not. So I appreciate exactly what you're describing: the fact that the WOL is a blank page on which I can draw my own personal interpretation. I wouldn't want anyone to try and develop an ‘independent WOL’, because that would trample on my character (a bit, to continue the comparison with Dnd, like those DMs who come and plaster their interpretations on your character).

To sum up: in one case you accompany a character for a while; in the other, you embody him or her. And in an mmorpg, it's generally the second option that's favoured.

[Mikey_R]

I think one of the biggest issues with how the WoL is portrayed in DT is that we never really get to show off how strong we are, even at the story climax, our moment was taken away by someone who, most would perceive, as not being strong enough narrative wise to accomplish what she done. As many have said, it is the Wuk Lamat story and not our story. Even in terms of threat to people's plans, the WoL never really caught anyone's eye as someone to be taken seriously, which really downplays our importance.

We have to remember, we are on a far away continent, noone here really knows of us except maybe stories from merchants and traders coming from Eorzea. But, who is going to believe some of the fantastical stories about this mysterious person. I am playing through the story again for a second time and have just reached Earthenshire, however, a scene just before with Koana at Many Fires where he is taking to Urianger and Thancred shows he is taking stories with a pinch of salt. Namely he says 'if the WOL is half the person claimed from the stories, they are going to be a threat to my plans of ascending the throne'. Whilst that is slightly paraphrased, it gets the point across. Koana doesn't fully trust the stories and this is someone who spent time at Sharlayan and would likely hear more first hand accounts for the WoL's tales.

Shifting focus to Bakool Ja Ja and Zarool Ja, neither of them really see us as the main threat, their eyes are set upon Wuk Lamat. To us, the player, however, she has never really been shown to be a threat. Bakool Ja Ja swatted her away like she was nothing in Ok'hanu and Zarool Ja showed he was stronger than Bakool Ja Ja, so Wuk Lamat would be easy for him, especially after his power up. So why are they so fixated on her, especially when we are the strong ones. In my eyes, a couple of solo duties to show we are the threat to their plans and in some story beats about Wuk Lamat training, even with us giving her advice etc.

We should be the main threat and through our actions, we inspire people to get stronger, keep them going, no matter the odds. We were meant to be helping and mentoring Wuk Lamat after all, but it was never really shown, which is why some of the story beats fell flat when it came to Wuk Lamat's strength.

I could say more, but I don't want to just slap too much of my rambling here. The main thing to take away is that, in the pat, we felt like we mattered, in DT, it didn't feel like we mattered.

[Hallarem]

This guy saying 'in WoW you're a nobody and not the main character go play that' lmao. You realize that all the big ticket characters literally licked the player's boots ever since WotLK 2008 right?

How about stop talking about a game you obviously never played and only refer to as a means of perceived +coolness factor?

WoW went the route of "Commander, hero" etc but never really went the full stretch. You more felt like a third wheel to the actual heroes.
Doubt Jaina even knows your name after you basically restored her reputation and reunited her with her family.

You felt more like the "tool" some people say the WoL is being directed at issues. Though I dont know if they made you more of an actual person in Shadowlands and beyond cause I quit before.

Endwalker made me check out. I prefer a more grounded experience, politics, wars, person to person strife. End of the universe out of nowhere + time travel (WoD eugh) made me nauseous. Shadowbringers was the perfect amount of world saving and personable stuff. Hell the Scions ARGUED and were actual characters instead of plotbeacons

[Auro_Seldaris]

Neither does HW then, unless you consider that there is an Ascian trying to pull the string behind Thordan, but then it's been the same behind garlemald for a way longer time. And that's the point, the WoL is constantly fighting events set in motion by ascians one way or another, whether it's an invading imperial legion (ARR), an endless war (HW), an invading foreign power (SB). It just happens that hydaelyn vs zodiark becomes more relevant in SHB and onward because that's where we finally start unraveling what's behind the veil instead of fighting threats sent at the world to generate a rejoining.

Trying to drive a wegde between interconnected events is pointless. That you found the middle part boring is one thing, but it doesn't change the fact that the middle part is no less important to the story than what happened before, it just continues raising the stakes and making the looming threats growing closer and closer until ShB happens, and this time the only reason you actually move the story forward into deeper revelations is Emet Selch amusingly enough, because without him it would have ended up being about twarting yet another ascian threat, just in a more "after the fact" fashion than most due to the state of the First when the WoL finally comes there. If anything, the Stormblood middle part is literally what drives the story toward Endwalker Garlemald, and set things in motion for the final days to trigger.

My point in replying to that person was that they consider the first 3 expansions "The Hydaelyn and Zodiark Arc", when they only tangentially relate to the Ascians and their master aside from ARR, and leave out the two expansions which are explicitly about that plot. It's a baffling mentality.

I'm still on EW, but my issue is that the WoL only feels like the main character because he is us, the player. There’s maybe a meta element to it, but I just don’t find it satisfying.

Outside of the DRK quests, he has very little of what can be seen as agency. We rarely get a meaningful peek inside his head, and our dialogue options are almost always generic, lacking emotional depth or complexity. So yes, obviously he’s the MC, but he doesn’t feel like a true character in the same way that Yotsuyu or Emet do.

There used to be more of those little moments: Fordola's peek inside your head with the Resonanace and her questioning of how you can handle the emotional pain and the Echo, the choice of what to eat in Amh Araeng, how you can frame your final conflict with Zenos, and others in previous expansions. It's just that the writing has degraded severely and they don't even bother with trying to "get in the WoL's head" anymore. Partly because people have a shit fit when the portrayal doesn't line up with their headcanon 100%.