Synodic Scribe's "The Steady Change in Writing..." Video

[Valence]

Perhaps tangentially only, but if one takes a look at the first 2 areas of each expansion, there is a clear pattern of struggle and a consistent failure into makign those actually valuable to the story as a whole, and only in ShB do they fully work out. For instance:

- HW: The Sea of Clouds is literally filler content and could be completely removed from the msq that it wouldn't change anything, you just go there to save abducted knight templars by the vundu, and later goes back there to just checkmark the second required primal/trial for the story. The peak you get of Varis and the new garlean dreadnought could have been placed anywhere else. Meanwhile the Western Coerthas arc is extremely sparse and just has the WoL go investigate an abandoned barn and find iceheart cultists. The only moment that actually brings to the story is the long talk with iceheart later about going on a journey to learn more of the dragonsong story. Those two areas as such a chore after the huge hype the player goes through when first stepping into Ishgard...

- SB: this expansion does it a little better in that regard, and probably is one of the least egregious ones. The initial hype being built leading to that expansion culminates with the start of a potentially terrifying war and the WoL ends up in castrum oriens past the wall to continue right where we left. The Fringes area does the job by making the player go through war skirmishes, but kinda drops the ball because nothing of real story value actually happens, which makes me think they had the right idea but a poor execution. The Peaks however is one of the best first areas they've done and I'll stand by my words here. This area alone literally defines what SB would be about (or should have been about in a clearer way), which is how things aren't black and white when it comes to foreign occupation, how an oppressed people will not just rise against their oppressors at the snap of a finger, what are the stakes, and also how some of the local population can be literally made into awful collaborators (like the crania lupi, cf the tribute collector scene which condenses everything this area has to bring in themes and exposition).

- SHB: the two first areas of this expansion are actually a masterpiece of what the first areas should be doing: each of them clearly defines and exposes the outlines and fundamentals of this new world the player is exploring. ShB has the peculiarity of sending the player into a whole, brand new and unknown world and as a result has to set the basis very fast and efficiently to catch the player's attention and make them want to get more of it. Amh Araeng literally sets the tone with what the flood of light does to the First's inhabitants and societies, with a shock factor: the whole area has purpose and builds up in a very gloomy tone until the player is uneasy enough that dropping that bomb on them leads to the desired result. As for Eulmore, unease just slowly creeps in the same manner as the player discovers more and more about the politics and how a society comes to live in a world that's about to end. Those two areas have purpose, and very little filler if not at all.

- EW: EW goes back to the failings of previous expansions in my opinion there. The first area is Thavnair and its only purpose of being here is because we have always wanted to see Thavnair, that's about it (and I appreciate it), but it doesn't serve the story much. Sure, it introduces Vltra to us, but that's about it. The whole story in Thavnair is a lot of filler that could be cut and not much would be lost (until the second part later with Vanaspaghetti that DOES serve a purpose). And then you have Labyrinthos that again, serves literally no purpose by having the player see that Sharlayan is having deep secrets to cover, but the only moment it actually starts serving the story is the second part. Just mentioning or hinting at sharlayan having a secret area 51 didn't exactly need a full half first area dedicated to it where the only peak ends up being alitoad and alphitoad...

- DT: this expansion is a bit peculiar since... The whole first part of the msq (first 3 areas) all work very differently here, so... I guess it goes out of the mold by necessity. DT's first areas aren't problematic for the same reasons, they're just part of a problematic whole.

I wish they could really go back to ensure that those first 2 areas of each expansion actually are there to catch the player's interest and keep them engaged for the actual meat of the story to come, like shb managed to do so well.

[Exmo]

In Heavensward, we accompany a small party of people on their quest to end a war.
In Stormblood, we accompany a small party of people in their quest to stop a war.
In Shadowbringers, we're abducted and told we are the only person who can save the world, so we do what we're told.

Where's the perceived player agency in these stories? If it's simply that you wanted to do what you were doing, versus in DT where you didn't want to do what you were doing, that's circular reasoning.

[Zackneifein]

In Heavensward, we accompany a small party of people on their quest to end a war.
In Stormblood, we accompany a small party of people in their quest to stop a war.
In Shadowbringers, we're abducted and told we are the only person who can save the world, so we do what we're told.

Where's the perceived player agency in these stories? If it's simply that you wanted to do what you were doing, versus in DT where you didn't want to do what you were doing, that's circular reasoning.

We don't just accompany a small party of people on their quest to end the war. There is a clear reason for that : once again they sheltered us when the Scions were at their lowest since the massacre of the Walking Sand. And there is the Ascians and more precisely Lahabrea that is our mortal ennemy at this time, we know he is behind all that one way or another.
In Stormblood the war is here, inevitable and it's Eorzea, our place that is menaced. Then Zenos appears very early in the story and kick our ass, cimenting not only the WoL have to get revenge for that, but also that they are the only one capable to stop him.
In Shadowbringer, yes it may seems similar to Dawntrail... but it's also cimented early in the story that the WoL is the ONLY chance for the First. And even if we refused to help, helping the Scion going back to the Source is agency enough.

The agency is either the WoL or there allies or friends are in danger or the WoL is the only one who can solve the problem.

In Dawntrail ? Why help Wuk Lamat ? Do the WoL is useful for anything more than a competent adventurer like Hoary Boulder could have been ? No.
There could have been agency, but never was. Even in the "world ending threat", the WoL seems not that necessary.

[Exmo]

In Dawntrail ? Why help Wuk Lamat ?

There are all sorts of reasons you could come up with to answer that, in the same way you came up with justifications for the other expansions.

It sounds like you're using "agency" in an idiosyncratic way. I'll be honest, it doesn't make much sense to me - you feel there's plenty of player agency in stories where the player character is the only one who can do a certain thing and therefore is compelled to do it? Surely that's when the player would feel the least agency then.

At the end of the day I just don't think player agency is a worthwhile metric of quality. It's like talking about the redness of an apple

[Zackneifein]

There are all sorts of reasons you could come up with to answer that, in the same way you came up with justifications for the other expansions.

It sounds like you're using "agency" in an idiosyncratic way. I'll be honest, it doesn't make much sense to me - you feel there's plenty of player agency in stories where the player character is the only one who can do a certain thing and therefore is compelled to do it? Surely that's when the player would feel the least agency then.

At the end of the day I just don't think player agency is a worthwhile metric of quality. It's like talking about the redness of an apple

Wuk Lamat isn't our friend. She is barely someone we know. The current situation of Tural is unknown to us but nothing is said about it being problematic or dangerous for the World. That's why they planted another agency for the WoL: adventure and all the marketing was about that (so much that until the very end, Wuk Lamat was absent from it).
I was hyped for that, and until lvl 91 I was waiting for it, as the WoL could be. But at the end there was nothing about adventure and that's what I'm criticizing here. The only reason for us to go to Tural fell flat.

You don't seem to care that the WoL have a role in the story, I do. That's why I prefer MMORPG like GW2 or SWTOR to WoW or DAoC.

That may be the difference between us. Once again, ARR couldn't have been resolved without the WoL.

Same for Heavensward, same for Stormblood, same for Shadowbringers and Endwalker. It doesn't mean the WoL do everything, it doesn't mean the focus is always on the WoL but the WoL matter.
Dawntrail could have been exactly the same with any elite adventurer replacing the WoL and the WoL had no reason to take Wuk Lamat side. The WoL is narratively just a bodyguard (or a cheerleader) and technically a cameraman.

And to be clear, agency doesn't mean "always a stronger baddies", even without making the WoL weaker, there is many way to render the WoL powerless or near powerless, mainly because the WoL isn't Zenos and isn't some kind of dictator that would just murder everyone on sight. Politics and facing army always was the WoL weakness, who excel in 1v1 (or 8v1).

[Exmo]

Dawntrail could have been exactly the same with any elite adventurer replacing the WoL and the WoL had no reason to take Wuk Lamat side. The WoL is narratively just a bodyguard (or a cheerleader) and technically a cameraman.

Again, this is true of all the expansions.

[Bonoki]

There was a moment in Heavensward where the Warrior of Light clenched their fists, seemingly about to strike Emmanellain, before Thancred stepped in and did it instead. It was one of the rare times our character showed real emotion. Later, Yoshi-P apologized for this, acknowledging that it took too much agency away from how players felt their characters would have reacted. He even stated he wouldn’t do it again.

[Zackneifein]

There was a moment in Heavensward where the Warrior of Light clenched their fists, seemingly about to strike Emmanellain, before Thancred stepped in and did it instead. It was one of the rare times our character showed real emotion. Later, Yoshi-P apologized for this, acknowledging that it took too much agency away from how players felt their characters would have reacted. He even stated he wouldn’t do it again.

If that's what he wanted to do, he absolutly failed.
The WoL is everything but a blank character. And even then, "agency" in defining a personality for a character has nothing to do with "agency" in the story.

[JohnLakeside]

There was a moment in Heavensward where the Warrior of Light clenched their fists, seemingly about to strike Emmanellain, before Thancred stepped in and did it instead. It was one of the rare times our character showed real emotion. Later, Yoshi-P apologized for this, acknowledging that it took too much agency away from how players felt their characters would have reacted. He even stated he wouldn’t do it again.

See, now this was a great moment. This is the one of the few times where the WOL has shown complexity. That he was about to do something, but then didn't. He had to control himself. Whereas every other time WOL clenches his fist, its during the most obvious of moments.

[Merrigan]

See, now this was a great moment. This is the one of the few times where the WOL has shown complexity. That he was about to do something, but then didn't. He had to control himself. Whereas every other time WOL clenches his fist, its during the most obvious of moments.

It's a question of player expectations here. You see, typically, these are moments that I don't appreciate.

I don't play an MMOORPG character the way I play, say, Geralt in The Witcher. Geralt is a pre-existing character. He has his character, his quirks, his liabilities, and the reactions that are beyond my control are perfectly valid in that sense.

The WOL is, for me, a character similar to those I play as in a game of Dnd. It's a character I imagine from start to finish, whose personality I shape... So any intervention of the ‘clench your fists in rage’ type is exactly as Yoshi-P pointed out: an interference in my gameplay. Here, the only option I'd be happy with is the choice of punching this young aristocrat in the face - or not. So I appreciate exactly what you're describing: the fact that the WOL is a blank page on which I can draw my own personal interpretation. I wouldn't want anyone to try and develop an ‘independent WOL’, because that would trample on my character (a bit, to continue the comparison with Dnd, like those DMs who come and plaster their interpretations on your character).

To sum up: in one case you accompany a character for a while; in the other, you embody him or her. And in an mmorpg, it's generally the second option that's favoured.